Renumbering
This page is an attempt to try and record the changes of numbers that carriages and waggons have had over the past 150 plus years of both the Festiniog and the Welsh Highland. The stock can be considered in three sections.
The FR stock has had several renumberings in recent times, whilst the WHR, and its precursor NWNGR also had a few attempts of which only partial details survive. All very confusing!
Because of the nature of the changes being indicated, the use of links is minimal. In general the only vehicles listed here are ones that still exist, and the number they currently carry.
Source Detail: Boyd for material prior to 1975, though updated and corrected by FRM, Heritage journals, etc. In particular, FRM 50 has a stock list for Aug 1970, FRM 54 has an update to Aug 1971, FRM 93 has a list for 1981 and TGBC has the position at 1992.
[edit] FR Stock.
[edit] 1. Original numbering.
Before the 1946 closure it would appear that the policy of the FR Co was to have different number series for different classes of stock, all in theory starting at 1. No official list was available to Boyd but he gives the following categories (there may have been more)
- Passenger Brake Vans
- Passenger carriages
- Quarrymen's carriages
- Goods brake vans
- Slate wagons
- Slab wagons
- Stone trucks
- Pig, calf wagons
- Iron bolster wagons (not wooden)
- a general goods series including coal and other open wagons, vans, wooden bolster wagons, etc.
[edit] 2. The New Administration.
After the re-opening from 1954, the surviving passenger brakes (which had by then been rebuilt with passenger accommodation) were renumbered into the carriage series as 10-12, and various wagons were renumbered, probably to eliminate duplications or because they had no visible number. At this stage there were separate passenger and goods lists.
[edit] 3. The 1967 Unified List.
In 1967 it was decided to have a single series of numbers for all passenger and goods rolling stock. The intention was that there should be no duplication of numbers between coaches, vans and wagons. To this end, some wagons were renumbered to avoid confusion between coaches and brake vans.
- Any wagons numbered between 1 and 59 and between 100 and 129 were moved to 130 and above, to leave these ranges for coaching stock.
- The old carriages were not renumbered. 1-9 were 4 wheeled coaches and vans, and 10-26 were bogie coaches. Tourist open coaches were later to be added, and given numbers 37 - 39 & 42, numbers originally used for toastrack coaches in the 1920s.
- New coaches were to be numbered in the 100 to 129 range. New coach 24 (already built) and 25 & 30 (under construction) became 104, 105 and 110 to fit in with this policy.
- Service stock acquired from elsewhere mostly went into the 60-99 range. Service stock mostly adapted from old FR wagons were put in the 1xx range. Unmodified 2-ton slate wagons were put in the 2xx range, 3 tonners in the 3xx series and slates converted to flats in the 4xx.
[edit] 4. The Present System.
In 1996 with several replica carriages in construction or planned, re-numbering of some coaches (mainly 4 wheeled vans) was proposed to release appropriate low numbers for them, and by 2005 all the passenger brakes were in a separate series once again. Since then, when historic wagons have been refurbished they have mostly been restored to their original number (if known), sometimes causing duplication with other vehicles.
Why the PW Dept mess coach is numbered 1111 is a mystery.
There are therefore effectively 3 separate and overlapping number series now -
- Passenger brake vans (1-7)
- Carriages (1-42, 100-124), Service stock and unrestored or modified old wagons with 1967 numbers (51-99, 131-437, 1111.)
- Restored historic wagons with original numbers (some approximate). (1-1057 with many gaps)
[edit] Original NWNGR stock
The original numbering is not known, but the stock seems to have been renumbered at least twice in NWNGR days but full records have not been found, which has led to much speculation. The surviving carriages were renumbered in 1923 from 23 upwards to follow on from the FR cariages in a combined list. Such details as are known are here.
[edit] New WHR stock
Following the same principle the new stock for the WHR has been given numbers high enough not to overlap with the FR stock.
Where known the ex-SAR wagons have kept their original numbers (863 being the lowest) and ex-SAR wagons with unknown original numbers numbered 2001-5.
The ex-Chattenden mess coach/ brake van is 1001.
The new carriages are numbered in the 2xxx range above 2010.
The ex-SAR brake van is 3172, its original SAR number.
Ballast hoppers have been renumbered 4021 on to avoid confusion with coaches (they had been 2021 on).
Ex-RNAD wagons rebuilt by EAG have been numbered 5001 on.
The WHHR has its own number series for new or acquired coaches and wagons, but original or replica WHR or NWNGR vehicles bear an appropriate WHR or NWNG number for the livery carried.
[edit] Some renumberings of coaching stock
Pedantically is not a renumbering, as the current holder of this position is the new build Curly Roof Van. However, due to the number of different Number Ones, a potted history is stated here.
- 1863 - 1873?= A four-wheel 'sentry-box' type brake van
- 1873 - 1921 = Bogie curly-roof brake van
- 1923 - ???? = believed to be a van converted from a quarryman's carriage for the WHR.
- 1955 - 1963 = A converted quarrymans carriage ( 2 balconies) which before closure was van 6. Became Van 1 in 1955 but deteriorated in service and ended its life as a grounded shelter at the bottom end of Dduallt Station. The remains were removed to Boston Lodge in the 1990's and from the dimensions, a replica van (7) was built.
- 1964 - 1996 = the current Van 51 held the title of Van 1
- 1998 = the current Van 7 was built as a replica of Van 1 (1955) but never ran with this number, entering service as No 7.
- 2004 - now = the new curly Roof Van
Van 2 originally Van 2, then Carriage 10
The old company had it as Van 2, but the new adminstration in around 1955 decided to renumber it in the carriage series as Carriage 10. In 2005 it reverted to its orignal number. Meanwhile a converted Quarryman's with one balcony (previously No 8) ran as Van 2 until 1996-9 when it was renumbered 6.
Van 4 originally Van 4, then Carriage 11
The old company had it as Van 4, and again, the new adminstration in around 1955 decided to renumber it in the carriage series as Carriage 11. In 2005 it reverted to its orignal number
Van 5 originally Van 5, then Carriage 12
The old company had it as Van 5, and again, the new admminstration in around 1955 decided to renumber it in the carriage series as Carriage 12. In 2005 it reverted to its orignal number
Van 7 replica of Van 1 (1955)
Built in 1998 as a replica of a converted quarrymans carriage which before closure was van 6. The original Van 6 became Van 1 under the new administration in 1955 but deteriorated in service and ended its life as a shelter at the bottom end of Dduallt Station. The remains were removed to Boston Lodge in the 1990's and from the dimensions, this replica van was built.
Van 51 originally Van 1
Built in 1963 as a replacement for the old No. 1. Van. Renumbered 51 in 1996 to allow for construction of a replica No. 1 Van.
Carriage 23 originally NWNGR Coach 12
Built in 1894 by Ashbury Railway Carriage and Iron Co (external), Manchester for the North Wales Narrow Gauge Railways (NWNGR) as a "Summer Coach" and numbered 12. In 1923 it became 24 in the FR/WHR combined series. In 1936 the coach passed into FR Co. ownership. At some point in this era it was renumbered Carriage 23 in the FR series.
Carriage 100 The original 100 existed from 1964 until 2005 when it was withdrawn from passenger service. It became Carriage 1000 in departmental stock. See Carriage 1000 below.
A new 100 was constructed in 2005-7 as an all 1st class observation car.
Carriage 101 The original 101 existed from 1968 until 2009 when it was withdrawn. It then entered the works at Blodge, refurbished, and returned to service as 123
A new 101 was under construction in 2011.
Carriage 104 originally 24
This carriage was the first of the completely new stock and entered service as 24. However, as they were being built in the Centenary period, it was decided, in May 1967, to start a fresh number range denoting modern stock from 100 upwards, and this carriage became 104.
Carriage 105 originally 25
When originally planned Carriage 105 was intended to be number 25. However, as they were being built in the Centenary period, it was decided, in May 1967, to start a fresh number range denoting modern stock and this carriage entered service as 105.
Carriage 121 The original 121 existed from 1981 until 2005 when it was withdrawn and scrapped. Interestingly, one vestibule end was auctioned off on E-bay. The underframe was used in the first of a new combined Guards Van / Toilet / Buffet Car "Service Vehicle" 124
A new 121 is under construction in 2011.
Carriage 123 A rebuild of the original 101 as a Third Class top-end observation car with disabled access.
Carriage 124 New Build incorporating chassis from original 121
Carriage 1000 originally Carriage 100
The former 100, now WHR construction Mess Coach 1000 existed as such only from 2006 to February 2010, seeing little use from 2009 onwards. In February 2010, a team at Dinas dismantled and scrapped the bodywork. The chassis and frame was returned to Boston Lodge, and parts used in other projects.
Carriage 2011 originally Carriage 2020 Earliest of the WHR open saloons, this was withdrawn and rebuilt into a service vehicle similar to 2010
Carriage 2020 see Carriage 2011 above The original 2020 existed from 1997 until 2010 when it was withdrawn from passenger service. It was rebuilt (enclosing the sides) and renumbered, becoming service car 2011, a sister for 2010.
[edit] See also
- Carriages Index
- Carriage Renumbering Guide for a different view on renumbering
