Festipedia:General queries

This page is for general queries concerning this wiki. Add your query in a new section by clicking on the 'new section' tab at the top of this page.

Recent changes page

Hi Peter, The "recent changes" page (and only that one) is very sluggish to respond whilst scrolling up and down. Can you think of any reason why this might be? Tony E. 21:00, 3. Mar 2007

Tony Set your userid up properly, then goto My preferences from the top line - go to the Recent Changes tab - change the no. of days down to a low number (like 1 for moment - increase to 2 tomorrow) - your probably set at the default (which was 30) which includes all the auto convert changes

Keith 21:17, 3 March 2007

Keith is right. The underlying problem is that the page is now 1.5Mb in size. IE struggles with pages that big, as do all other browsers I've tried. It also eats up our site bandwidth. I may have to put something in place to reduce the impact on the site, but reducing the number of days on RC in your preferences will sort things out for the moment --Peter_Harrison 21:47, 3 March 2007

Thanks for that advice Keith & Peter. I had in fact cut it down to a week, but clearly there are so many current daily changes that it was still stalling. I'll keep it set to a couple of days till things calm down a bit! Tony E. 20:00 4 March 2007

Test pages

Peter et al

Where have the test pages gone?

I do like to check layouts, captions etc before placing additions to esisting pages.

I think this may have been mentioned somehere but I can't remember where!

Help!

Kim Winter

Keith has moved them into the Wiki namespace after I said they should be moved out of the main namespace to either Wiki or User. A couple of them have become subpages to User pages. I have suggested (this is NOT a decision) that personal test pages should be subpages of the relevant user page and that we might set up a sandbox in the Wiki namespace which will get cleared out daily (similar to Wikipedia). As I say, this is NOT a decision, just a suggestion for comment.

By the way, you can sign posts to this page and talk pages easily by clicking on the signature button (round about the middle of the toolbar above the edit box) or typing --~~~~. That gives a signature like this: --Peter_Harrison 20:26, 4 March 2007

Inserting symbols

Is there an easy way of inserting symbols? (I'm thinking of letters which have a "to bach", such as a^, e^, y^ etc.) Tony_E. 21:30, 4 March 2007

Yes. For these specific ones, you want to type Â, â, Ê, ê and so on, giving Â, â, Ê, ê. A, e, i, o and u are supported (both upper and lower case). You can't do Y this way but you can get it by specifying Ŷ and &#x177 giving Ŷ and ŷ respectively. The codes for y may not work on all browsers (although it should be ok on most) but the other letters should. These codes actually come from the HTML standard which is why there is no specific code for ŷ - they haven't defined one. I would not recommend attempting to use these characters in page titles - I haven't tested it and it may well give unexpected results --Peter_Harrison 23:09, 4 March 2007

Carriage 9

Can we lose this page now? I have made the text against the completed No10 read for the carriage having been built.

Chris J

I have actually reconstitued Carriage 6,9,11, and 13 to make the range 1-26 complete. all 4 only have base details, and as just said - there for completion --Keith 21:53, 17 April 2007

Welsh Pony At Port discussion on picture page

Am I alone in feeling it is wrong to put all the debate on what was where and when against this photo. I thought the wiki was for facts and the debates should be away from what is 'published' on a page.

For my point of view the true answer is on plate 4 of Immortal Sails and that is an end of it until somebody comes up with hard evidence to the contrary. Speculation should not be included in the wiki when it cannot be backed up.

Chris J 14/7/07

(Chris - just an aside - to log your entry properly just type in --~~~~ This puts your name and time on the file)

Welsh Pony Comment - I think that the info now on the FR Achives - Additional Information page is in the wrong spot. I would think a better place to put this information (for a particular picture) is on the image data page, where discussion can be about the picture itself. I have suggested this to Kim, and await his reply. As for discussion that crosses more than one picture, then there is the discussion tab on each page - rightfully the information could be placed there. --Keith 22:49, 14 July 2007

I am inclined to agree with Chris - the wiki should only contains facts. Considering Keith's comment, if there is to be a debate, it should be on the Discussion page associated with the Image, not on the Image Data page. --Stewart 07:05, 15 July 2007

Apologies that is what I meant to say. The discussion page, be it for an image or an article, is for basically sorting out the information to be presented on the "Article" page
--Keith 08:12, 15 July 2007

slow to respond

For some while now I have found the Wiki DREADFULLY slow to respond to opening/saving/previewing pages. I seem to recall that this coincided with switching server, or similar. Am I the only one having this problem? - I 'd have to say it has actually put me off using the Wiki of late .... Tony_E. 16:43, 17 September 2007

just back from NYMR and this edit seemed reasonable speed - u having any other probs Tony? (will admit there has been other comments on speed on this ISP) --Keith 14:26, 1 October 2007

No other problems on the web. Just this site. Oh, having just written that, I see that today is the best it's been in a long while! Tony_E. 15:10, 1 October 2007

Apologies for the delayed response - I've been away for a few days. I have found the wiki a little slow at times since changing hosts but it is not consistent. Sometimes I get no response at all, other times the response is instant. I put some debug logging on the software and found that most requests were being handled in less than 0.5s, indicating that the problem is elsewhere. The servers are in Germany, which may be part of the problem - our previous hosts were in the UK. I've turned on Mod_Perl which should help a little. I don't think there is much else I can do in the short term but I will keep an eye on this. Any further feedback on this issue would be most welcome --Peter_Harrison 20:20, 1 October 2007

The Dutch in Porthmadog

I am trying to find out information about the Dutch commandos in Porthmadog during WWII. I am studying Dutch at night school and have to give an oral presentation in Dutch on this subject. Thanks to the display at Harbour station I have made contact with Jan Timmer, born in Wales with a Dutch father and Welsh mother. There is also a truly excellent web site in Dutch 'soldatenvanoranje@tiscali.nl', which appears to be temporarily unavailable.

What I am missing is the railway's perspective. I remember snippets in the Magazine about the Dutch. For example, did they wheel trolleys across the Cob? Where there still goods trains running and how often? Were there still any staff working at or active around Harbour station at the time?

If anyone can help me with this or knows anyone who is an expert on this period in the railway's history, I would be very grateful.

Thanks

Alan Roberts

Broken Link

Graig_Ddu_Quarry - link to aerial photo is dead. John G (untimed 08:18 09-Aug-08)

The "Gathering the Jewels" external site must have been down for some reason. Its okay now. As you will appreciate, we have no control of other sites. However, thanks for pointing it out, as occasionally links do go dead, and we dont know until some one finds out(or doesnt find it as the case may be!)

Cheers, Keith -Keith (talk) 2008-8-9T07:53:34 (UTC)

Hunslet not Heisler

See the table of engines the one indicating a Heisler is actually a Hunslet (change label).

To validate any information, please sign any messages left. This helps verify information. I appreciate your comment was valid, and have corrected the entry --Keith (talk) 2008-12-5T09:23:10 (UTC)

spooner family

Sir, I have recently discovered your site. Looking through details listed of thomas spooner, it shows as his issue members of the (John Soden) son of John Smith Soden, who later became john soden corbet of Ynsymaengwyn. in fact thomas spooner was the son of john smith soden and become a barister and judge. signed for Maljonp 18:35:52 26/12/2008

Response: I am not quite sure if you read it right, or I may misunderstand your note.

To clarify......

Thomas Spooner (1) (of Powick and no FR connection) had, first a son called Thomas (2), then a daughter Elizabeth. (and had a number of other children) She, in turn, married John Smith Soden. (and had a number of children) They had a son Thomas (3) (1838-?), who took the title of Thomas Spooner Soden Thomas (3) kept the Spooner name of his mother, and became a big FR Shareholder.

There is legal connections via Thomas (1), and his third child, James, who had a son, Thomas John(4), (1822-1881), a lawyer who did much legal work for the FR especially land transfer, but unfortunately, he was not an apparently good lawyer and lost of lot of the family money. He married Elizabeth Fenton French.

The information above has been culled from a number of sources over the years. From the way I read your note, you are only adding the fact that Thomas (3) went into the legal profession as well (and his father remarried?), and it would help if you could state where your information comes from, in order it can be verified.

Thanks --Keith (talk) 2008-12-26T19:28:02 (UTC)

Family Tree of the Swinton SPOONERS

In an attempt to trace my family, and knowing that there was some connection to the railway, I recently found the family tree which actually includes me as one of the most recent additions (Katie b1977) and I would like to know how I would be able to get a copy of the family tree. When I try to print or save to my computer the quality is very poor making names and dates difficult to determine - who do I need to contact to get a copy of this family tree?

Response: Welcome Katie. I loaded that imagecopy some time back from a copy printed in our house magazine many years ago. The easiest way is to look at the original here

Brings up the full size - the original was only A5 in size. Either print from this copy, or save and manipulate on your own machine before printing.

• --Keith (talk) 2009-2-2T18:48:39 (UTC)

Festiniog Railway Personalities

I have not found much reference to FR Trustees on this site.

Quite rightly the Trustees have always maintained a background stance, but their role has in reality been a crucial one,and the time, energy and expertise expended since AFP's first moves have been phenominal. The responsibility shouldered, moral and legal, by trustees of such an organisation is not perhaps realised by many, but it is real enough.

Perhaps someone could give thought to coverage of this aspect of FR history.

Bryan Chicken (Sec. to the Trustees, 1963 - 2004) 29th June 2009

Response:
When I set the tables up for Directors, staff, etc, I as working from published lists. There is also the "anonimity" (?) part, as we dont like to place too much on record for living people (except where they have written it themselves!). Personally I can only quote Dr Prideaux as being a member, as some where it was recorded he became chair of the trustees. (I probably know some without knowing their position!)

If you would like to "construct" an article, there is already a page entitled Festiniog Railway Trust that has some base informtion to start off. I openly say I am interested in all facets of the company, and its operations, but equally I stress no expertise in any area.

Due to my "other half" admitting to not knowing what part is which - i.e. Trust, Company, Society, WH side, WHHR side, Heritage Co, Group, etc., I am looking at doing something like the "gestation" chart of Dan Wilson's 1979 cart detailing how it all came together (albeit a little less cluttered), amongst other things. --Keith (talk) 2009-6-29T11:27:58 (UTC)

Wrysgan Incline

What excellent photos of the Wrysgan incline and above! I have scrambled up the exposed incline but, having been warned that the tunnel was dangerous, did not go in. From the photo this might have been an exaggeration. The writer states: “Once opened it ... was originally twin tracked, but was relaid (pre 1940 ?) as a single acting powered incline. Indeed, power haulage was used more or less throughout its working life due to the steepness at the summit and the shallowness at the base - more on this below. “...Cut through solid rock at an extremely steep angle (so steep that an uphaulage system would be the only reasonable method of raising wagons up this final stretch).” However, whilst it is clear that a winding engine was built at the head, and apparently latterly it was a single track incline, I am puzzled as to why. In my younger days I saw many North Wales quarry inclines working, and I am sure I have seen an incline in operation with a “hyperbolic” profile similar to Wrysgan. The steepness at the top meant that the laden train could make a quick start and quickly overcome the inertia of the normally empty train starting to be hauled up from the bottom. Conversely, the laden train on reaching a shallower grade at the bottom would then have less of a gravitational pull; added to this there would be a braking effect on the other end of the cable caused by the empty train reaching the steep bit near the summit. The combined effect was to make the brakesman’s job on the winding drum easier. Indeed I thought this was the whole idea of such a profile. (A similar principle is applied to London underground stations.) So I cannot quite understand why the conclusion is drawn that up-haulage was “the only reasonable method....” I would be grateful for further elucidation, please, and perhaps a qualification of the statement made linked to the Wiki might be necessary. Incidentaly, does anyone know of a link showing any of the local slate quarry inclines actually in operation? It would certainly bring back some wonderful memories! I would also be a useful link in the Wiki.

Welcome to Festipedia, Michael. Unfortunately the quotes you make are from another site, the Remains of the Welsh Slate Industry site, which we have no connection with (apart from permission to use the photo.) This site is more of a reference for the main railway itself. You should really contact JAW through the ROWSI site for more information. --Keith (talk) 2010-1-10T00:22:54 (UTC)

DISMANTLING THE WHR

I've just been reading the section regarding the dismantling of the WHR.

This shows that the final section of the WHR - across Britannia Bridge - was dismantled during 1957/8; this is, I believe, wrong.

My first visit to the FR was in June 1958, and track was still in place across Britannia Bridge at that time; moreover, there was, I believe, also some track still visible at the top of the street which forks off the High Street on the town side of the bridge. On one visit, I guess in the 1958-1960 period, the road junction was being altered, and it looked as though some of the track (close to the boundary) was being left in situ and just covered with tarmac (or paving stones), so it may still be there for future archeologists to discover! However, I can't remember if the Shell garage was in that area at that time; if it was constructed later and covers some of the route of the WHR, then I guess the track may have gone during its construction.

David Faircloth

William Williams

William Williams went by the Welsh poetry bardic name of Gwilym Meirion. He was Superintendent of railways c1875 to c1906. William's sister Margaret married Solomon Owen, a carpenter on the railway. Margaret was my great-grandmother. She had a daughter Elen (who married my maternal grandfather Robert Isaac Jones of Tremadog). They ran a busy village store in Minffordd where my mother (Margaret Maud Jones) was born in Tanydderwen. Margaret Maud married my father Gwilym Idris Jones, who worked for the Midland Bank, eventually retiring to Ruthin.

This William Williams had a father, also William Williams, who also worked on the F. Railway. I think in the books and commentaries there has been some confusion between the two.

The elder William was either the son or the grandson of Richard Williams, who worked under Madocks as the blacksmith and iron-worker in the new model town of Tremadog.

Although William Williams (Gwilym Meirion)is said to have been buried in Minffordd Cemetery, I cannot find his grave. Does anybody have any information?

John Idris Jones, Borthwen, Ruthin, LL15 1DA johnidrisjones@btinternet.com

Response:

As the person who has done the recent research on William William and family I suppose I am the best person to respond. However, I can offer no further information about where he is buried, like everyone else I just have taken Minffordd as correct but that could well be wrong.

How fascinating that you are a descendant if only through his sister. I can't now remember what the Festipedia article says about him and can't refer to it whilst I am writing this. However, I have written an article about him which was published in our Heritage Group Journal. I did find his father (also William as you say) and I also discoverd Richard living with them in 1841 before they moved to Hawarden but the census entry did not indicate they were related - just said he was a boarder. I suspected that he was the grandfather but there was no proof.

I did not realise that William was a poetry bard but I did know that your great grandmother, Margaret, married Soloman Owen. If you can shed any further light on the family I would like to hear from you.

Jim Hewett Heritagejim (talk) 18:01, 28 January 2011 (UTC) heritagejim@yahoo.co.uk

Geoff Plumb

Hi there, Is it possible to give me the email of Geoff Plumb? I´m a portuguese railway enthusiast and I lost Geoff contact when Fotopic stopped working. Thanks in advance. João Ribeiro da Silva

joaoribeirosilva@gmail.com

response

It is not our practice to give out emails. However, your email will be passed on and possibly Geoff will contact you directly --Keith (talk) 07:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Pictures

Interesting site this, and I've found out a lot, however a picture would speak a 1000 words and there is a noticable shortage for maps (only bing links). This may already be known but 2 suggestions in case the main editors haven't bumped into these already are: www.openstreetmap.org and www.npemap.org.uk The licences are here and here. Cheers, Ben 81.5.142.101 (talk) 22:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

There is no budget to pay for external licencing. For the map references, it is found using an outside source is acceptable for most uses. They can show the information a lot better than can be done within the wiki environment. --Keith (talk) 06:32, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

The two sites mentioned by Ben are both on CCSA licenses so can be used free of charge. Budget is therefore not an issue. Npemap gives scans of OS maps from the 1940s/50s whilst openstreetmap gives a user editable map of the world - an interesting development of the wiki concept. I would have no problems with use of either of these if it was felt appropriate. --Peter Harrison (talk) 09:12, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I think Ben (possibly, in not mentioning it) had missed an important map we already have. The Map page has been provided by the FR itself for a couple of years, which gives the overall area, with emphasis on the railways of the region (note - not just F&WHR). This is also "hot-linked" so clicking on a station name or road name will take you to the relevant information page within Festipedia. The main map is also split into 4 to explode the NW, NE, SE and SW quadrants (albeit from an older version - and they could do with updating!!). --Keith (talk) 20:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Festiniog Wagon Plates

Hi hope somebody can help me, can you please advise what type of wagon number 37 was / is? Many thanks Phil

Quarry Workmans Carriage 7

Hi Can anybody provide a photo of this carriage phil@pfss.co.uk Many thanks Phil

Typos.

Helo, don't know if I'm in the right place to contact you, but here goes. You have misspelt Ffestiniog in your main logo / badge, it has two F's! Also, Diffwys Square is not spelt Diffus!

If you are a 'heritage' group, well please respect the correct spelling of our place names as it is part of Blaenau Ffestiniog, as well as Welsh, heritage. It doesn't take that much extra time to research the right way to spell place names. I've only noticed those two so far.....

Hope you make the corrections.

Gareth, Tanygrisiau.

Gareth - Yes, this is the right place to contact us.

We are well aware of the current spelling of Ffestiniog. However, it is precisely because we are a heritage group that we use these spellings. The spellings used within Festipedia are not a result of ignorance nor are they intended to offend local residents. They are an attempt to record history correctly, including using the spellings that were in use at the time.

In the early 19th Century Welsh spelling had not yet been formalised and Anglicised spellings were frequently used for place names. As a result of this, the Act of Parliament which brought the Festiniog Railway Company into being used just one F in Festiniog. This remains the legal title of the Company. Changing it would require another Act of Parliament.

The correct Welsh spelling of Ffestiniog uses two Fs. The Festiniog Railway Company continued to use just one F for many years. However it now uses the double F spelling for most purposes, only using the single F version where the legal title of the Company is required.

Since the single F spelling was in use for over 150 years it forms part of the heritage of the Festiniog Railway. The Heritage Group therefore uses the single F spelling in its title. However, you will find that the modern spelling of Ffestiniog appears frequently within Festipedia where it is appropriate.

The station in the centre of Blaenau Ffestiniog was known as Duffws for most of its existence, although it was also spelt Dyffws and Diphwys at various times. If you can point to an article that spells it Diffus that would certainly get corrected, although not to Diffwys as the station does not appear to have ever carried that name.

In similar vein, you will find Porthmadog referred to as Portmadoc frequently within Festipedia as this was the official name of the town until 1974.

Whilst we recognise and respect the correct current spelling of these place names, Festipedia attempts to use the spelling that is corrrect for the context whilst remaining consistent within each article, although I will freely admit that it isn't perfect in this regard. Although we could simply adopt modern spellings throughout we do not believe this would be correct for a project intended to provide an historical record.

I hope this helps to clarify the situation --Peter Harrison (talk) 23:16, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

New picture added - Clive Briscoe on 143's footplate

Hi Peter et al

I've finally set up a login profile and added some of my FR & WHR history to the 'Personalities - Clive Briscoe' page. Tonight I've uploaded a rare picture of me at work on the railway and fully expected it to appear in the same page... Wrong, it's there on Festipedia but I now can't seem to link it to the CB page. I'm new at this so would appreciate a helping hand...

Cheers, Clive

I've sorted it for you, Clive. Tony E. (talk) 07:15, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Weedkilling wagon

Greetings All, I am trying to find out what colour the weedkilling wagon was painted, its the weedkilling wagon that was built on the frames of a Hudson coach underframe, and has a no 67 painted on one of the two tanks, there is a photo of the said wagon in the Middleton Press book Festiniog in the Sixties. I am building a model in 009.

Regards Darren

Coed y Bleiddau Cottage

I never see much mention of Bob and Barbara Johnson who rented the above cottage from the Railway Company from 1946 until very nearly 20000.Each of them in their own way were delightful people and always encouraged anybody interested in the railway.That is how I got to know them very well.They had a small fund of stories including about Tan-y-Bwlch when the line was closed. If you want to know more about Bob and Barbara you can reach me at andrew.fleming@live.co.uk

Keith Catchpole

I was one of Keith's Tadpoles back in the 1970s and wondered if there were any others out there still connected to the ffestiniog?

Leslie Skipper

The only one I know of is Peter Dennis who runs his design business in Porthmadog. His cartoons often appear in FR publications and he is still active with the FR. Heritagejim (talk) 21:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi , yes i was one of the Tadpoles in 1968-72 and won the Madoc Jones cup one year , not that i can remember why ? Wrote my name in the setting concrete in a shed in Boston Lodge too !! These were happy days :) Mike Smith

Beddgelert loco, original.

Can anyone direct me to the official drawings of this loco as mentioned in the site elsewhere as it seems they still exist.
  I have obtained a 16mm scale model which needs some attention and would like to work from accurate drawings to make repairs and
 additions. Contact Adrian Swain on 01202 672891 if you can assist.

Another 'loco' which ran on the FR

In 1965, three of us built a 'loco' at school, comprising a Hudson skip frame and a 500cc motor bike which drove one wagon axle via a traditional flat belt. The loco did go but was reluctant to stop! Around that time, we were Deviationists at Dduallt and we delivered our loco to the FR in the vain hope that it might be of use on the Deviation. I imagine it was scrapped many years ago.

Ted McAvoy

M J T Lewis

Can anyone put me in touch with M J T Lewis?

I've been commissioned to make a replica Cyfarthfa plateway wagon for Merthyr Tydfil and would welcome his advice on a couple of points.

Thanks Ted McAvoy

(ted@leanderarchitectural.co.uk)

Duffws trident signal

Would you be kind enough to explain this (Steam Railway Jan 4th pg 42) What it was, how it worked etc etc

Trouble finding how to do links

I am finding it hard to discover how to do a link from words in one page to another page containing the relevant subject. Mark Temple MarkTemple (talk) 06:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

You can find full details at Help:Links. Briefly, if you want a link to, say, the page on Charles Easton Spooner you put [[Charles Easton Spooner]]. You can change the text that appears for the link by putting [[Charles Easton Spooner|Spooner]] which gives Spooner. You can also link to a heading by putting [[Charles Easton Spooner#Private life|Spooner's private life]] which gives Spooner's private life. --Peter Harrison (talk) 06:57, 4 May 2013 (UTC)