Festipedia:General queries

This page is for general queries concerning this wiki. Add your query in a new section by clicking on the 'new section' tab at the top of this page.

Recent changes page

Hi Peter, The "recent changes" page (and only that one) is very sluggish to respond whilst scrolling up and down. Can you think of any reason why this might be? Tony E. 21:00, 3. Mar 2007

Tony Set your userid up properly, then goto My preferences from the top line - go to the Recent Changes tab - change the no. of days down to a low number (like 1 for moment - increase to 2 tomorrow) - your probably set at the default (which was 30) which includes all the auto convert changes

Keith 21:17, 3 March 2007

Keith is right. The underlying problem is that the page is now 1.5Mb in size. IE struggles with pages that big, as do all other browsers I've tried. It also eats up our site bandwidth. I may have to put something in place to reduce the impact on the site, but reducing the number of days on RC in your preferences will sort things out for the moment --Peter_Harrison 21:47, 3 March 2007

Thanks for that advice Keith & Peter. I had in fact cut it down to a week, but clearly there are so many current daily changes that it was still stalling. I'll keep it set to a couple of days till things calm down a bit! Tony E. 20:00 4 March 2007

New locomotives

Ought we to enter the shunting locomotives Bill (alias Bouncy Castle) and Ben (not yet in service) in the list?

Test pages

Peter et al

Where have the test pages gone?

I do like to check layouts, captions etc before placing additions to esisting pages.

I think this may have been mentioned somehere but I can't remember where!

Help!

Kim Winter

Keith has moved them into the Wiki namespace after I said they should be moved out of the main namespace to either Wiki or User. A couple of them have become subpages to User pages. I have suggested (this is NOT a decision) that personal test pages should be subpages of the relevant user page and that we might set up a sandbox in the Wiki namespace which will get cleared out daily (similar to Wikipedia). As I say, this is NOT a decision, just a suggestion for comment.

By the way, you can sign posts to this page and talk pages easily by clicking on the signature button (round about the middle of the toolbar above the edit box) or typing --~~~~. That gives a signature like this: --Peter_Harrison 20:26, 4 March 2007

Inserting symbols

Is there an easy way of inserting symbols? (I'm thinking of letters which have a "to bach", such as a^, e^, y^ etc.) Tony_E. 21:30, 4 March 2007

Yes. For these specific ones, you want to type Â, â, Ê, ê and so on, giving Â, â, Ê, ê. A, e, i, o and u are supported (both upper and lower case). You can't do Y this way but you can get it by specifying Ŷ and &#x177 giving Ŷ and ŷ respectively. The codes for y may not work on all browsers (although it should be ok on most) but the other letters should. These codes actually come from the HTML standard which is why there is no specific code for ŷ - they haven't defined one. I would not recommend attempting to use these characters in page titles - I haven't tested it and it may well give unexpected results --Peter_Harrison 23:09, 4 March 2007

Carriage 9

Can we lose this page now? I have made the text against the completed No10 read for the carriage having been built.

Chris J

I have actually reconstitued Carriage 6,9,11, and 13 to make the range 1-26 complete. all 4 only have base details, and as just said - there for completion --Keith 21:53, 17 April 2007

Welsh Pony At Port discussion on picture page

Am I alone in feeling it is wrong to put all the debate on what was where and when against this photo. I thought the wiki was for facts and the debates should be away from what is 'published' on a page.

For my point of view the true answer is on plate 4 of Immortal Sails and that is an end of it until somebody comes up with hard evidence to the contrary. Speculation should not be included in the wiki when it cannot be backed up.

Chris J 14/7/07

(Chris - just an aside - to log your entry properly just type in --~~~~ This puts your name and time on the file)

Welsh Pony Comment - I think that the info now on the FR Achives - Additional Information page is in the wrong spot. I would think a better place to put this information (for a particular picture) is on the image data page, where discussion can be about the picture itself. I have suggested this to Kim, and await his reply. As for discussion that crosses more than one picture, then there is the discussion tab on each page - rightfully the information could be placed there. --Keith 22:49, 14 July 2007

I am inclined to agree with Chris - the wiki should only contains facts. Considering Keith's comment, if there is to be a debate, it should be on the Discussion page associated with the Image, not on the Image Data page. --Stewart 07:05, 15 July 2007

Apologies that is what I meant to say. The discussion page, be it for an image or an article, is for basically sorting out the information to be presented on the "Article" page
--Keith 08:12, 15 July 2007

slow to respond

For some while now I have found the Wiki DREADFULLY slow to respond to opening/saving/previewing pages. I seem to recall that this coincided with switching server, or similar. Am I the only one having this problem? - I 'd have to say it has actually put me off using the Wiki of late .... Tony_E. 16:43, 17 September 2007

just back from NYMR and this edit seemed reasonable speed - u having any other probs Tony? (will admit there has been other comments on speed on this ISP) --Keith 14:26, 1 October 2007

No other problems on the web. Just this site. Oh, having just written that, I see that today is the best it's been in a long while! Tony_E. 15:10, 1 October 2007

Apologies for the delayed response - I've been away for a few days. I have found the wiki a little slow at times since changing hosts but it is not consistent. Sometimes I get no response at all, other times the response is instant. I put some debug logging on the software and found that most requests were being handled in less than 0.5s, indicating that the problem is elsewhere. The servers are in Germany, which may be part of the problem - our previous hosts were in the UK. I've turned on Mod_Perl which should help a little. I don't think there is much else I can do in the short term but I will keep an eye on this. Any further feedback on this issue would be most welcome --Peter_Harrison 20:20, 1 October 2007

The Dutch in Porthmadog

I am trying to find out information about the Dutch commandos in Porthmadog during WWII. I am studying Dutch at night school and have to give an oral presentation in Dutch on this subject. Thanks to the display at Harbour station I have made contact with Jan Timmer, born in Wales with a Dutch father and Welsh mother. There is also a truly excellent web site in Dutch 'soldatenvanoranje@tiscali.nl', which appears to be temporarily unavailable.

What I am missing is the railway's perspective. I remember snippets in the Magazine about the Dutch. For example, did they wheel trolleys across the Cob? Where there still goods trains running and how often? Were there still any staff working at or active around Harbour station at the time?

If anyone can help me with this or knows anyone who is an expert on this period in the railway's history, I would be very grateful.

Thanks

Alan Roberts

Broken Link

Graig_Ddu_Quarry - link to aerial photo is dead. John G (untimed 08:18 09-Aug-08)

The "Gathering the Jewels" external site must have been down for some reason. Its okay now. As you will appreciate, we have no control of other sites. However, thanks for pointing it out, as occasionally links do go dead, and we dont know until some one finds out(or doesnt find it as the case may be!)

Cheers, Keith -Keith (talk) 2008-8-9T07:53:34 (UTC)

Hunslet not Heisler

See the table of engines the one indicating a Heisler is actually a Hunslet (change label).

To validate any information, please sign any messages left. This helps verify information. I appreciate your comment was valid, and have corrected the entry --Keith (talk) 2008-12-5T09:23:10 (UTC)

spooner family

Sir, I have recently discovered your site. Looking through details listed of thomas spooner, it shows as his issue members of the (John Soden) son of John Smith Soden, who later became john soden corbet of Ynsymaengwyn. in fact thomas spooner was the son of john smith soden and become a barister and judge. signed for Maljonp 18:35:52 26/12/2008

Response: I am not quite sure if you read it right, or I may misunderstand your note.

To clarify......

Thomas Spooner (1) (of Powick and no FR connection) had, first a son called Thomas (2), then a daughter Elizabeth. (and had a number of other children) She, in turn, married John Smith Soden. (and had a number of children) They had a son Thomas (3) (1838-?), who took the title of Thomas Spooner Soden Thomas (3) kept the Spooner name of his mother, and became a big FR Shareholder.

There is legal connections via Thomas (1), and his third child, James, who had a son, Thomas John(4), (1822-1881), a lawyer who did much legal work for the FR especially land transfer, but unfortunately, he was not an apparently good lawyer and lost of lot of the family money. He married Elizabeth Fenton French.

The information above has been culled from a number of sources over the years. From the way I read your note, you are only adding the fact that Thomas (3) went into the legal profession as well (and his father remarried?), and it would help if you could state where your information comes from, in order it can be verified.

Thanks --Keith (talk) 2008-12-26T19:28:02 (UTC)

Family Tree of the Swinton SPOONERS

In an attempt to trace my family, and knowing that there was some connection to the railway, I recently found the family tree which actually includes me as one of the most recent additions (Katie b1977) and I would like to know how I would be able to get a copy of the family tree. When I try to print or save to my computer the quality is very poor making names and dates difficult to determine - who do I need to contact to get a copy of this family tree?

Response: Welcome Katie. I loaded that imagecopy some time back from a copy printed in our house magazine many years ago. The easiest way is to look at the original here

Brings up the full size - the original was only A5 in size. Either print from this copy, or save and manipulate on your own machine before printing.

• --Keith (talk) 2009-2-2T18:48:39 (UTC)

Festiniog Railway Personalities

I have not found much reference to FR Trustees on this site.

Quite rightly the Trustees have always maintained a background stance, but their role has in reality been a crucial one,and the time, energy and expertise expended since AFP's first moves have been phenominal. The responsibility shouldered, moral and legal, by trustees of such an organisation is not perhaps realised by many, but it is real enough.

Perhaps someone could give thought to coverage of this aspect of FR history.

Bryan Chicken (Sec. to the Trustees, 1963 - 2004) 29th June 2009

Response:
When I set the tables up for Directors, staff, etc, I as working from published lists. There is also the "anonimity" (?) part, as we dont like to place too much on record for living people (except where they have written it themselves!). Personally I can only quote Dr Prideaux as being a member, as some where it was recorded he became chair of the trustees. (I probably know some without knowing their position!)

If you would like to "construct" an article, there is already a page entitled Festiniog Railway Trust that has some base informtion to start off. I openly say I am interested in all facets of the company, and its operations, but equally I stress no expertise in any area.

Due to my "other half" admitting to not knowing what part is which - i.e. Trust, Company, Society, WH side, WHHR side, Heritage Co, Group, etc., I am looking at doing something like the "gestation" chart of Dan Wilson's 1979 cart detailing how it all came together (albeit a little less cluttered), amongst other things. --Keith (talk) 2009-6-29T11:27:58 (UTC)

Wrysgan Incline

What excellent photos of the Wrysgan incline and above! I have scrambled up the exposed incline but, having been warned that the tunnel was dangerous, did not go in. From the photo this might have been an exaggeration. The writer states: “Once opened it ... was originally twin tracked, but was relaid (pre 1940 ?) as a single acting powered incline. Indeed, power haulage was used more or less throughout its working life due to the steepness at the summit and the shallowness at the base - more on this below. “...Cut through solid rock at an extremely steep angle (so steep that an uphaulage system would be the only reasonable method of raising wagons up this final stretch).” However, whilst it is clear that a winding engine was built at the head, and apparently latterly it was a single track incline, I am puzzled as to why. In my younger days I saw many North Wales quarry inclines working, and I am sure I have seen an incline in operation with a “hyperbolic” profile similar to Wrysgan. The steepness at the top meant that the laden train could make a quick start and quickly overcome the inertia of the normally empty train starting to be hauled up from the bottom. Conversely, the laden train on reaching a shallower grade at the bottom would then have less of a gravitational pull; added to this there would be a braking effect on the other end of the cable caused by the empty train reaching the steep bit near the summit. The combined effect was to make the brakesman’s job on the winding drum easier. Indeed I thought this was the whole idea of such a profile. (A similar principle is applied to London underground stations.) So I cannot quite understand why the conclusion is drawn that up-haulage was “the only reasonable method....” I would be grateful for further elucidation, please, and perhaps a qualification of the statement made linked to the Wiki might be necessary. Incidentaly, does anyone know of a link showing any of the local slate quarry inclines actually in operation? It would certainly bring back some wonderful memories! I would also be a useful link in the Wiki.

Welcome to Festipedia, Michael. Unfortunately the quotes you make are from another site, the Remains of the Welsh Slate Industry site, which we have no connection with (apart from permission to use the photo.) This site is more of a reference for the main railway itself. You should really contact JAW through the ROWSI site for more information. --Keith (talk) 2010-1-10T00:22:54 (UTC)

DISMANTLING THE WHR

I've just been reading the section regarding the dismantling of the WHR.

This shows that the final section of the WHR - across Britannia Bridge - was dismantled during 1957/8; this is, I believe, wrong.

My first visit to the FR was in June 1958, and track was still in place across Britannia Bridge at that time; moreover, there was, I believe, also some track still visible at the top of the street which forks off the High Street on the town side of the bridge. On one visit, I guess in the 1958-1960 period, the road junction was being altered, and it looked as though some of the track (close to the boundary) was being left in situ and just covered with tarmac (or paving stones), so it may still be there for future archeologists to discover! However, I can't remember if the Shell garage was in that area at that time; if it was constructed later and covers some of the route of the WHR, then I guess the track may have gone during its construction.

David Faircloth

William Williams

William Williams went by the Welsh poetry bardic name of Gwilym Meirion. He was Superintendent of railways c1875 to c1906. William's sister Margaret married Solomon Owen, a carpenter on the railway. Margaret was my great-grandmother. She had a daughter Elen (who married my maternal grandfather Robert Isaac Jones of Tremadog). They ran a busy village store in Minffordd where my mother (Margaret Maud Jones) was born in Tanydderwen. Margaret Maud married my father Gwilym Idris Jones, who worked for the Midland Bank, eventually retiring to Ruthin.

This William Williams had a father, also William Williams, who also worked on the F. Railway. I think in the books and commentaries there has been some confusion between the two.

The elder William was either the son or the grandson of Richard Williams, who worked under Madocks as the blacksmith and iron-worker in the new model town of Tremadog.

Although William Williams (Gwilym Meirion)is said to have been buried in Minffordd Cemetery, I cannot find his grave. Does anybody have any information?

John Idris Jones, Borthwen, Ruthin, LL15 1DA johnidrisjones@btinternet.com

Response:

As the person who has done the recent research on William William and family I suppose I am the best person to respond. However, I can offer no further information about where he is buried, like everyone else I just have taken Minffordd as correct but that could well be wrong.

How fascinating that you are a descendant if only through his sister. I can't now remember what the Festipedia article says about him and can't refer to it whilst I am writing this. However, I have written an article about him which was published in our Heritage Group Journal. I did find his father (also William as you say) and I also discoverd Richard living with them in 1841 before they moved to Hawarden but the census entry did not indicate they were related - just said he was a boarder. I suspected that he was the grandfather but there was no proof.

I did not realise that William was a poetry bard but I did know that your great grandmother, Margaret, married Soloman Owen. If you can shed any further light on the family I would like to hear from you.

Jim Hewett Heritagejim (talk) 18:01, 28 January 2011 (UTC) heritagejim@yahoo.co.uk

William Williams appeared with a photograph in a publication called British Engineers about 1898. It described him as follows:- W. Williams Boston Lodge Cottage, Portmadoc, North Wales ; son of W. Williams, engineer, of Tremadoc Carnarvonshire ; born at Tremadoc, in January 1840 ; educated at Hawarden School, Flintshire ; served pupilage at the Festiniog Railway Works, Boston Lodge. Locomotive Superintendent Festiniog Railway ; office Boston Lodge Portmadoc ; engaged upon, designed, carried out all railway waggons, carriages, and locomotive engines, tenders, etc. ; Locomotive and Carriage Superintendent, having served time as fitter and turner, and six years as engine driver ; inventor of the Fairlie oscillating steam pipe, having improved also the designs of the Fairlie engines, and all other single engines of the Festiniog Railway Company. Married, in April 1860, the daughter of Robert Parry, builder, Llanfyllyn, and has issue two sons, one J.P., now on the Eastern Bengal State Railway, India, acting as Locomotive and Carriage Superintendent, the other, W. Godfrey, as Locomotive Foreman at Boston Lodge Works, and one daughter.

Michael Bishop

Geoff Plumb

Hi there, Is it possible to give me the email of Geoff Plumb? I´m a portuguese railway enthusiast and I lost Geoff contact when Fotopic stopped working. Thanks in advance. João Ribeiro da Silva

joaoribeirosilva@gmail.com

response

It is not our practice to give out emails. However, your email will be passed on and possibly Geoff will contact you directly --Keith (talk) 07:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Pictures

Interesting site this, and I've found out a lot, however a picture would speak a 1000 words and there is a noticable shortage for maps (only bing links). This may already be known but 2 suggestions in case the main editors haven't bumped into these already are: www.openstreetmap.org and www.npemap.org.uk The licences are here and here. Cheers, Ben 81.5.142.101 (talk) 22:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

There is no budget to pay for external licencing. For the map references, it is found using an outside source is acceptable for most uses. They can show the information a lot better than can be done within the wiki environment. --Keith (talk) 06:32, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

The two sites mentioned by Ben are both on CCSA licenses so can be used free of charge. Budget is therefore not an issue. Npemap gives scans of OS maps from the 1940s/50s whilst openstreetmap gives a user editable map of the world - an interesting development of the wiki concept. I would have no problems with use of either of these if it was felt appropriate. --Peter Harrison (talk) 09:12, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I think Ben (possibly, in not mentioning it) had missed an important map we already have. The Map page has been provided by the FR itself for a couple of years, which gives the overall area, with emphasis on the railways of the region (note - not just F&WHR). This is also "hot-linked" so clicking on a station name or road name will take you to the relevant information page within Festipedia. The main map is also split into 4 to explode the NW, NE, SE and SW quadrants (albeit from an older version - and they could do with updating!!). --Keith (talk) 20:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Festiniog Wagon Plates

Hi hope somebody can help me, can you please advise what type of wagon number 37 was / is? Many thanks Phil

Quarry Workmans Carriage 7

Hi Can anybody provide a photo of this carriage phil@pfss.co.uk Many thanks Phil

Typos.

Helo, don't know if I'm in the right place to contact you, but here goes. You have misspelt Ffestiniog in your main logo / badge, it has two F's! Also, Diffwys Square is not spelt Diffus!

If you are a 'heritage' group, well please respect the correct spelling of our place names as it is part of Blaenau Ffestiniog, as well as Welsh, heritage. It doesn't take that much extra time to research the right way to spell place names. I've only noticed those two so far.....

Hope you make the corrections.

Gareth, Tanygrisiau.

Gareth - Yes, this is the right place to contact us.

We are well aware of the current spelling of Ffestiniog. However, it is precisely because we are a heritage group that we use these spellings. The spellings used within Festipedia are not a result of ignorance nor are they intended to offend local residents. They are an attempt to record history correctly, including using the spellings that were in use at the time.

In the early 19th Century Welsh spelling had not yet been formalised and Anglicised spellings were frequently used for place names. As a result of this, the Act of Parliament which brought the Festiniog Railway Company into being used just one F in Festiniog. This remains the legal title of the Company. Changing it would require another Act of Parliament.

The correct Welsh spelling of Ffestiniog uses two Fs. The Festiniog Railway Company continued to use just one F for many years. However it now uses the double F spelling for most purposes, only using the single F version where the legal title of the Company is required.

Since the single F spelling was in use for over 150 years it forms part of the heritage of the Festiniog Railway. The Heritage Group therefore uses the single F spelling in its title. However, you will find that the modern spelling of Ffestiniog appears frequently within Festipedia where it is appropriate.

The station in the centre of Blaenau Ffestiniog was known as Duffws for most of its existence, although it was also spelt Dyffws and Diphwys at various times. If you can point to an article that spells it Diffus that would certainly get corrected, although not to Diffwys as the station does not appear to have ever carried that name.

In similar vein, you will find Porthmadog referred to as Portmadoc frequently within Festipedia as this was the official name of the town until 1974.

Whilst we recognise and respect the correct current spelling of these place names, Festipedia attempts to use the spelling that is corrrect for the context whilst remaining consistent within each article, although I will freely admit that it isn't perfect in this regard. Although we could simply adopt modern spellings throughout we do not believe this would be correct for a project intended to provide an historical record.

I hope this helps to clarify the situation --Peter Harrison (talk) 23:16, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

New picture added - Clive Briscoe on 143's footplate

Hi Peter et al

I've finally set up a login profile and added some of my FR & WHR history to the 'Personalities - Clive Briscoe' page. Tonight I've uploaded a rare picture of me at work on the railway and fully expected it to appear in the same page... Wrong, it's there on Festipedia but I now can't seem to link it to the CB page. I'm new at this so would appreciate a helping hand...

Cheers, Clive

I've sorted it for you, Clive. Tony E. (talk) 07:15, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Weedkilling wagon

Greetings All, I am trying to find out what colour the weedkilling wagon was painted, its the weedkilling wagon that was built on the frames of a Hudson coach underframe, and has a no 67 painted on one of the two tanks, there is a photo of the said wagon in the Middleton Press book Festiniog in the Sixties. I am building a model in 009.

Regards Darren

Coed y Bleiddau Cottage

I never see much mention of Bob and Barbara Johnson who rented the above cottage from the Railway Company from 1946 until very nearly 20000.Each of them in their own way were delightful people and always encouraged anybody interested in the railway.That is how I got to know them very well.They had a small fund of stories including about Tan-y-Bwlch when the line was closed. If you want to know more about Bob and Barbara you can reach me at andrew.fleming@live.co.uk

Keith Catchpole

I was one of Keith's Tadpoles back in the 1970s and wondered if there were any others out there still connected to the ffestiniog?

Leslie Skipper

The only one I know of is Peter Dennis who runs his design business in Porthmadog. His cartoons often appear in FR publications and he is still active with the FR. Heritagejim (talk) 21:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi , yes i was one of the Tadpoles in 1968-72 and won the Madoc Jones cup one year , not that i can remember why ? Wrote my name in the setting concrete in a shed in Boston Lodge too !! These were happy days :) Mike Smith

I too was a Tadpole and remember laying the concrete at Boston Lodge circa 1969. I also remember using old corrugated sheets to slide down slate spoil heaps behind the works. Colin Pryke

Beddgelert loco, original.

Can anyone direct me to the official drawings of this loco as mentioned in the site elsewhere as it seems they still exist.
  I have obtained a 16mm scale model which needs some attention and would like to work from accurate drawings to make repairs and
 additions. Contact Adrian Swain on 01202 672891 if you can assist.

Another 'loco' which ran on the FR

In 1965, three of us built a 'loco' at school, comprising a Hudson skip frame and a 500cc motor bike which drove one wagon axle via a traditional flat belt. The loco did go but was reluctant to stop! Around that time, we were Deviationists at Dduallt and we delivered our loco to the FR in the vain hope that it might be of use on the Deviation. I imagine it was scrapped many years ago.

Ted McAvoy

M J T Lewis

Can anyone put me in touch with M J T Lewis?

I've been commissioned to make a replica Cyfarthfa plateway wagon for Merthyr Tydfil and would welcome his advice on a couple of points.

Thanks Ted McAvoy

(ted@leanderarchitectural.co.uk)

Duffws trident signal

Would you be kind enough to explain this (Steam Railway Jan 4th pg 42) What it was, how it worked etc etc

Trouble finding how to do links

I am finding it hard to discover how to do a link from words in one page to another page containing the relevant subject. Mark Temple MarkTemple (talk) 06:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

You can find full details at Help:Links. Briefly, if you want a link to, say, the page on Charles Easton Spooner you put [[Charles Easton Spooner]]. You can change the text that appears for the link by putting [[Charles Easton Spooner|Spooner]] which gives Spooner. You can also link to a heading by putting [[Charles Easton Spooner#Private life|Spooner's private life]] which gives Spooner's private life. --Peter Harrison (talk) 06:57, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Spooner Family

Hello I have been lead to your site through my research into my family history. James Swinton Spooner was my great grandfather (by his second marriage to Cecilia Easton)and I have been particularly interested in the late Dan Wilson's Spooner family tree. Someone at FR may be interested in a number of corrections I am able to provide via historic family documents including family bible extracts so perhaps you could put me in touch if that is the case.

Also is it possible to obtain past copies of FR Magazine or view electronically?

Regards

Robert Spooner

---

Hello Robert and welcome. As you have probably already realised we are very interested in the Spooner family. I will have a look at my copy of family tree later to see where you fit in. I would certainly be interested in corrections and we could probably get these published in the FR Magazine or maybe just here. Adrian Gray is our Archivist and would also be interested. Some of the early FR Mags are now available on a CD and if they sell well then others will be scanned also.

Heritagejim (talk) 17:20, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I would like to know whether there is a connection between this James Swinton Spooner and the James Swinton Spooner who was in Nelson New Zealand in mid-1843. He left in November 1844 for Australia but I do not know whether he stayed in Australia. At the time he left Nelson he had a wife and 1 child. And I would like to be in direct communication with Robert Spooner if possible about this.

Derek Leask

This is the same person. I have not followed up what he did in Australia & NZ (might be interesting). He eventually returned to the UK and built the Tan y Llyn Railway in 1865. heritagejim (who is unable to login) 81.99.242.172 (talk) 11:09, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

He worked for the New Zealand Company as a surveyor and went on exploring expeditions out of Nelson with a well known chap called Charles Heaphy. The New Zealand Company was a land purchase and immigration company which established the towns of Wellington and Nelson and others in the early 1840s. Land grabbing of the greedy and irresponsible kind was sometimes their modus operandi. My interest in Spooner is solely in the work he did to design the defences of Nelson in 1843 - a fort. No copies have been found of the designs for the fort. I was hoping to get hold of anyone who might be aware of material initially held by James Swinton Spooner but subsequently left by him either to an institution or his family or someone else. Hence my question about how I might get in touch with Robert Spooner. [Can I ask a favour? I am not familiar with Festipedia - are you able to tell me whether I need to use this string for getting in touch or are there alternative methods?] Cheers Derek Leask

Unfortunately there is no way to contact Robert Spooner other than to post a message here. If he were a registered user a message could be left on his user page but even them it would rely on him seeing it and if he is not a regular user of Festipedia he would not see it there either. The only other possible way is to put a message FR egroup and someone their might know him. I will try that. Heritagejim (talk) 10:02, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Jim I am much obliged. I would be happy to send you my email address if you were wanting a contact point for the New Zealand end of the James Swinton Spooner comments above. Cheers Derek

It did occur to me that Robert Spooner might be a member of the Festiniog Railway Society. I checked with the membership secretary yesterday but he is not so we still have no way of contacting him directly unless he chooses to use this page again. Heritagejim (talk) 07:04, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Pump Trolley

Sirs

Do you have any details of this Pump Trolley and it's use on the FR? - http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/5923862466

I would be very interested to know it's origins and also whether it still exists or was scrapped.

Many thanks

Jonathan Flood FR & WHR Life Member Director - The Rail Trolley Trust

I have never heard of this before. It was obviously on the FR in 1966 but may have only stayed for a short while.

Heritagejim (talk) 18:31, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I have just found this article (http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/wales/archive/bbc-north-west-wales-blaenau-ffestiniog-coed-y-bleiddiau-william-joyce.pdf) about Coed-y-Bleiddiau and the fact it was rented by Bob & Babe Johnson in 1951 and that they "made use of a hand-pumped railway trolley to propel themselves up and down the unused railway track and to bring supplies to their lonely cottage."

Jonathan Flood

If you could scan it we could possibly put it on festipedia (copyright permitting)

Heritagejim (talk) 07:31, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Photo portraits

It would be good to add portrait photos published in the FR Magazine to relevant pages in this wiki. How does one get access to them? Mark Temple

Could you scan them from FRM? You ought to check if that is OK with editor before publishing.

Heritagejim (talk) 17:22, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

A star on the smokebox

I've heard that a Ffestiniog driver used to put a star on his engine (Bill Hoole on Linda?). Can anyone confirm or provide any pictures please?

It could have been Bill Hoole. In Ffestiniog Railway Magazine No. 34 of Autumn 1966 there is a photograph of "Star turn", Prince on the 10.50 up on Ty Fry Curve on 4/7/66. At that time Bill Hoole was a regular driver of Prince. - Mark Temple 9/10/2014

I have checked out my slides taken in July 1966 when I was firing PRINCE to Tom Davies and, I think, Bill Hoole, who I have a recollection were each driving certain days each week, and I can confirm there was a star between the wheel then fitted and the smokebox door. It was around 9 inches from point to point and looks like it might have been made from Aluminium. There was no star on Linda at that time, which surely AGWG drove most of the time. Michael Bishop 12/10/2017

Copyright

I am currently writing a report for the Festiniog Railway Trust reporting on a short excavation carried out in Top Yard in Feb 2015. It would help if I could incorporate some historic photographs in particular the three on the Plas Smart page from 1958 1959 and pre 1958 (https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Plas_Smart) page also a couple from the Halsall Collection showing fish-belly rails in the old wagon shed. I don't want to violate copyright so was wondering who to apply to for these images. The final product from this work will be an article in the Railway Magazine so copyright will again be an issue here.

David Hopewell Uwch Archaeolegydd/Senior Archaeologist Ymddiriedolaeth Archaeolegol Gwynedd/Gwynedd Archaeological Trust Craig Beuno, Ffordd y Garth, Bangor, Gwynedd LL57 2RT Ffon/Tel 01248 36 6965 Ffacs/Fax 01248 370925

You can view the license for an image by clicking on it. By the title at the foot of the page it should say "View license". Click on that and the image description page will be displayed. This will include details of the license which will tell you if the image is for use on Festipedia only or if it is available to use freely. It will also tell you which user posted the image and, if they are not the photographer, who took the photo. If the image is not available for use freely you will need to contact either the photographer for permission, either directly or through the user who posted the image. --Peter Harrison (talk) 00:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Afon Dylif Bridge page

In the summary, the previous station is given as Rhyd-Ddu with the next as Pen-Y-Mount, though in the text it is given as "South of Beddgelert". Should this be Nantmor and Pont Croesor respectivley?

Terry Scott

Patrolling edits

I've been a user on this Wiki for over 8 years, and in that time have made many hundreds of edits. Why does it now say that my edits need to be patrolled? Tony E. (talk) 14:18, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm puzzled by this, as I haven't experienced it. I usually periodically go over all the recent edits and check them, then mark them as patrolled. Maybe it was a message notifying you it had been patrolled?

RedDragon (talk) 16:23, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Recent Edits was showing my edit (and other recent ones) with a red exclamation mark, i.e. awaiting patrol. Maybe this is something new. All now show clear. Tony E. (talk) 07:01, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

(Must have been a blip. Even that last edit, didn't have a "to be patrolled" icon, even though I initially forgot to log on with my user name. Tony E. (talk) 07:01, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Then after my second message the "to be patrolled" icon has appeared again. It includes your message and last edit by Pedr. Seems all new messages are tagged. Tony E. (talk) 07:04, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Tony - This is nothing personal. Patrolling is a feature of the software we use. It was turned off until a few months ago. One of the extensions we use requires us to turn it on. Basically any edit is marked as unpatrolled unless it is made by an administrator. The edit is still visible to all users. It can be marked as patrolled by any autoconfirmed user (i.e. logged in user who has been registered for a few days and made a certain number of edits). You will only see the red exclamation mark denoting an edit that has not yet been patrolled on [Special:RecentChanges] if you are logged in. There is no negative effect if an edit is not marked as patrolled - it still remains visible to anyone looking at the relevant page --Peter Harrison (talk) 16:05, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Cheers for that, Peter. Since my original post I'd come to the conclusion that it was probably something like that. Tony E. (talk) 21:44, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Receiving emails re. changes

In this last couple of days I've had loads of emails informing me that certain pages on the Wiki have been changed. (I've always received the odd random one.) This is despite my personal settings saying that I don't want to receive any emails. Any ideas? Tony E. (talk) 06:45, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

I've double-checked my personal settings ("Do not send me any email notifications") but this is still continuing big time; often dozens of alerts daily .... Tony E. (talk) 21:25, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

In the absence of any response, I've stopped this happening by removing my email address from the system (and putting in a fake one). Not ideal, but it has worked. Tony E. (talk) 20:55, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Apologies for the belated response. I suspect this relates to pages on your watchlist. Whenever you edit a page it is added to your watchlist and you automatically receive a notification when it changes. Confusingly, this is not controlled from the Notifications tab of your preferences. To disable this go to Preferences, look at your Email options (at the foot of the User profile tab) and turn off "Email me when a page or file on my watchlist is changed". --Peter Harrison (talk) 20:27, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Page visit counter changes

I thought this facility was quite informative but it seems to have been removed recently. What was the reason?

MarkTemple (talk) 07:51, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Suggestion: automatic safety-net category

To prevent new uncategorised and unindexed articles (and, as I have found, often not or scarcely linked to either) getting lost and hardly possible to retrieve for any reader who hasn't come across them by mere chance – is it possible to introduce an automatically generated category "Uncategorised articles", perhaps directly under "top"? I think the present state of affairs is a pity on good material that editors have put toil and effort into. --IP (talk) 01:30, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

And something similar for images, while we're at it. Many of them might be uploaded for use in an article, but all are not, and there's also no guarantee they will stay in that article or not be of perhaps even greater use in another. A comprehensive inventory might also be nice to have for documentary reasons. --IP (talk) 01:56, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

There is no way to automatically add an article to a category. However, there is a special page that lists uncategorized pages. There are other special pages for uncategorized files, uncategorized templates and even uncategorized categories. --Peter Harrison (talk) 15:53, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, pages will do. Thank you! --IP (talk) 16:04, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Moving an article to a redirect

Could it be made possible to move an article to a redirect (useful if that redirect has a better title)? On the big Wikipedia it worked last I tried, but not on this one. --IP (talk) 15:48, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

The functionality is the same as Wikipedia. You can move a page over a redirect PROVIDING it is a redirect to the old title and has just one line in the page history. If the redirect page does not meet these requirements only an administrator can move a page over it. So if you move A to B creating a redirect at A you can then move B back to A. However, if you edit A after the move (e.g. to add a category) only an administrator can move B back to A. --Peter Harrison (talk) 17:29, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

OK. I seem to recall that a couple of years ago it worked otherwise too, but may be mistaken or, if custom adjustments are possible, it may not have been the English wikipedia. But perhaps they (EDIT: custom adjustments) aren't worthwhile? ––IP (talk) 17:44, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

It is always possible to make changes to the source of MediaWiki but it leads to ongoing effort to repeat the changes for every new version that appears. I prefer to stick to MediaWiki as it comes (plus various extensions and some tweaking of the configuration) --Peter Harrison (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

OK, I can understand that. --IP (talk) 16:52, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Inconsistent listing in "What links here"

On a page like this: https://www.festipedia.org.uk/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Minffordd_Yard&limit=500, at least on my screen, some articles are not on their proper place in the alphabet but hidden away among the templates – e.g. Infrastructure Department, Ffestiniog Railway Buildings and Bobby's Box. I can see no pattern in it. Any idea why and can something be done about it? --IP (talk) 15:32, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

That is a feature of MediaWiki I'm afraid. Nothing we can do about it. If you think it should change go to the MediaWiki bug tracker and enter it as a bug report. --Peter Harrison (talk) 20:10, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Rail Weight

I think that there should be a page regarding the weights of rail use, and also the weight and dimensions of sleepers.

Just at this point of time, I cannot see how one can start a fresh new page.

See John S Hughes/Interview for some details:

• original 16 lb/yd
• later 30 lb/yd.
• Sharpest curve radius: 116 ft (1.76 chains) FarleyBrook (talk) 13:24, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree about the need, as far as it doesn't fit into Rail Types.

Enter your title in the Search window, check it carefully, then click on it in the text "You may create the page [title]".

If it isn't too much, it's well if you generously link to and from relevant other articles, put it in some relevant category or categories (in this case Category:Permanent Way could be one) and enter it into the Alphabetic Index. That'll make it more useful and easier to find. There is also a Help page. --IP (talk) 14:37, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Seems like I've misunderstood something here. You have started a fresh new page. --IP (talk) 00:56, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Why 1ft 11.5in ?

The gauge 1ft 11.5in isn't a round figure in either metric or imperial units. Why not 2ft 0in? FarleyBrook (talk) 13:28, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

The Ff&WHR web site just says it was a commonly used gauge in slate quarries. In fact slate quarries used a wide variety of gauges of which roughly 2 ft gauge was the commonest. For a list see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrow_gauge_slate_railways_in_Wales

The gauge of the FR is said by Boyd to have changed over the years. It is currently 1 ft 11.25 inches on straits and as wide as 1foot 11.5 inches on curves where the passage of the wheels is eased by gauge widening. Several quarries often quoted as 2 ft gauge differed slightly from the FR. The story is complicated by the fact that some quarries (e.g. Dinorwic) had wagons for quarry use with double flanged wheels which were loose on the axes so they could cope with track of slightly varying gauges. Gauge variations were common on roughly laid quarry track. Slight difference in gauge caused Linda problems (she derailed) when she first arrived from the Penrhyn Quarry RailwayMarkTemple (talk) 20:08, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

See rail gauge. FarleyBrook (talk) 05:21, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

I am researching the Casson family in North Wales, who knew the Spooner family very well. Is there any way I can look at a copy of: Wilson D H (1977) Spooners Up to Date, FRM No 77?

Diana D82.44.18.233 (talk) 14:46, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

The simplest way would be to go to the FR Heritage Group website sales page and order a copy. Scroll down to Ffestiniog Railway Magazine Back Issues. No. 77 will cost you £2.50. --Peter Harrison (talk) 19:42, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

ibase Ffestiniog

Is it permissible to use ibase Festiniog pictures on Festipedia? MarkTemple (talk) 17:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

If it were permissible, how would it be done? Many of the images on ibase are stored in such a way that makes it tricky to export them. Eheaps (talk) 17:08, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Simply right-click and 'save as', then upload as with any other picture. Tony E.

(talk) 19:33, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for answering the "How to" question Tony. Can anyone answer the "Is it permissible" question? MarkTemple (talk) 20:37, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I assume you're interested in old photographs. As I understand it (and the following wording comes from a UK copyright website) - "Photographs taken on or after 1 January 1996 are automatically protected for the life of the photographer plus 70 years." i.e. If the photographer has been dead for 70 years+ then the photo is now out of copyright. That would include, for instance, Bleasdale's photos. Where the photographer is not known, the 70 year period can be assumed. Tony E. (talk) 18:23, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

James Spooner II

Can someone create a new page for the loco please (or tell me how to do it!)

Chrisjones (talk) 20:04, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Done!

MarkTemple (talk) 20:46, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

== John Parry Jones & Henry Ellis Jones ==

Having talked to the family, can the hyphen be removed from John Parry Jones in Festipedia and the hyphen Parry from Henry Ellis Jones

The family gave middle names from older members of the family. They were not hyphenated and kept to the next generation.

Chrisjones (talk) 20:28, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

For future reference you can do this yourself. Simply Move the page to the new title. See Help:Moving a page for details. --Peter Harrison (talk) 22:46, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Observation carriage 150.

Hi. Having had the pleasure of travelling in the new observation carriage 150 last saturday, i would love to see dimensioned drawings of its construction or even any dimensions that anyone can give me. I model and run in 16mm live steam and love to scratch build in wood my own coaching stock. I have previously built examples of the WHR pickering brake, the buffet car, the 'mystery' coach and NWNG Cleminson 6 wheel all 3rd coach. Having ridden in 150 and throughly enjoyed the experience i would love to attempt a 16mm to the foot example to run behind live steam in the garden. Any help please? David.

1956 Agreement between FRSL and FR Co.

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this? MarkTemple (talk) 20:47, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Oops - I have found it. FRM No. 51 page 14. It is admirably brief! MarkTemple (talk) 21:02, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Blaenau Ffestiniog Central Station

I intend to construct a working model of Blaenau Central circa 1955 when I lived in Blaenau Ffestiniog. Your site has been invaluabled thus far however, I am eager to obtain as much information/detail for my model. Can you assist by either pointing me in the direction of publications or individuals/groups who could fill in a lot of blanks. Thank you in antcipation

Page 1872-10-11

THis page should be deleted. The newspaper article of this date is referring back to the Feb 1870 trials information. There was no testing on or around this date Chrisjones (talk) 09:26, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Chris. I've updated the text to clarify in preference to deleting it outright. --Peter Harrison (talk) 10:52, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

See Day Log/1872-10-11. FarleyBrook (talk) 10:29, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Carriage window bars

In 1864 Captain Tyler required the fitting of window bars because of the limited clearances. (Boyd 1975 page 73) Presumably it was the need to stop passengers putting their heads out of windows that lead to the use of louvred windows on the first barns. The FR seems to have changed policy and removed bars from carriage windows. When did that start and what was the justification? What are the references? Perhaps they are a heritage feature? MarkTemple (talk) 15:44, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Printing just a section of an article.

The print function (control-P) prints all sections and sub-sections in an article.

How does one print just a section or sub-section, so as to save paper and ink? FarleyBrook (talk) 04:32, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

The print function is provided by your browser and is nothing to do with MediaWiki. There is no way to print an individual section or sub-section. However, your browser will allow you to select which pages you print. The details of how you do that vary from browser to browser. Looking at Microsoft Edge, for example, the dialog box that appears when you press control-P says "Pages" with a drop down list saying "All" about half way down on the left side of the dialog box. Click on "All" and you can select "Current page" or "Page range". Peter Harrison (talk) 07:14, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Frederick Vaughan

His page is incorrectly titled FREDRICK - his census entries confirm that was not so.

Referencing FRHG Chronolgy

For the FR magazine items presumable give the FRM reference. What about items such as Arthur Lambert's reminiscences? MarkTemple (talk) 12:27, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Blacksmith's Shop, Top Yard, Boston Lodge. Grid Ref SH585378.

Could it be that this was originally a set - or two sets - of stables for horses? The half-doors with round heads are characteristic of stables. Tops open outwards, bottoms inward. There would have been a need to provide stables in the first generation of the Railway. [Another, perhaps less persuasive example, is the set of buildings below the Railway at Rhiw Goch, notably far away from the farm house. Grid Ref SH623403.]

I do not recall seeing another blacksmith's shop with stable doors. Would others care to comment? Pnjarvis (talk) 17:38, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Boston Lodge Chimney

When was it built in iron, encased in bricks and demolished? MarkTemple (talk) 17:42, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Colour wikipedia links in green rather than blue!

On my desktop PC it is hard to see the difference between plain text in black or bolded blacks and links in blue. Can FR be modified to display links in green?----FarleyBrook (talk) 03:55, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

This is built in to the software. I will not make a global change as this will affect all users, some of whom may prefer blue. However, you can make the change yourself. Set up a page User:FarleyBrook/Vector.css (assuming you use the default skin) and put the following:

a { color: green; }

That should change the colour of most, if not all, links. Note that "color" is the correct spelling - if you put "colour" instead it won't work. --Peter Harrison (talk)

Toilets and Sanitation

Toilers and Sanitation used to be subjects not discussed in public company, even though 600m people worldwide (mainly in the third world) suffer ill health and discomfort. In the last 10 years "stars are aligning" and practical solutions are starting to poke their shadows around the corner. People supporting the 21 year old World Toilet Organization include

Jack Sim founder of the WTO (not to be confused with the World Trade Organization) :-)

Bill Gates

Prime Minister of India

FR has 55 items matching the word Toilet. These should be gathered together into a single article.

A month ago Deutsche Welle the independent public broadcaster of Germany broadcast a documentary entitled "Great Toilet Battle"; should have been callded a War. DW's logo now is "Made for mines".

I will have to go and see if there are matches for the word Sanitation----FarleyBrook (talk) 04:21, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Answer is zero mentions for Sanitation. ----193.82.230.126 (talk) 07:33, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Timetables

I notice you are missing some WHR timetables. I can scan the 2004 timetable for you. Can I upload it or do I pass it to you to upload? Barrie Hughes

You can upload it yourself. Just click on "Upload file" in the menu on the left of the page and follow the instructions. --Peter Harrison (talk)

Permission to use a certain image

Greetings!

I am writing a textbook on signalling technology and would like to use a particular image byr Peter Matthews, showing the three electric train staff instruments in Rhiw Goch (before the rebuild): PM 20070902 Inside the Old Box 1.JPG

When looking up the licencing information for the image, it says that it is only free for use on Festipedia, so I need so seek separate permission to use it.

Please advice,

Anders Wallén

signalling engineer

Sweden

I have contacted Peter. I will email you when I have his response. --Peter Harrison (talk)

You should now have received an email from me. --Peter Harrison (talk) 16:30, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Blocked

Hi, I would like to help add information to this page. But my home IP address has been blocked by a member.

Can I appeal this decision? Or is it final? If so that is very harsh.

I believe some information on the Quarry Hunslet entries may be slightly incorrect / vague. I would like to refine it. This is following reading Cliff Thomas' book on the Quarry Hunslets.

Please contact me on my email: woodstockstrat1969@hotmail.com as I am unsure if I will be able to log in again.

Thanks in advance,

James. Woodstockstrat1969 (talk) 08:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Since you are able to post here, it is unlikely that your IP address has been blocked. Which page are you trying to edit? Peter Harrison (talk) 10:02, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

I have checked and your IP address is not blocked and has never been blocked. Which page are you trying to edit? What error do you see? Peter Harrison (talk) 14:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

If you are the person who changed the Hugh Napier page then you are not blocked, I just changed it back because both Thomas and the FfWHR rule book agree that the page was already correct. If you believe that these are both wrong I suggest outlining your reasons on the Hugh Napier talk page. It is worth pointing out that edits made by anonymous users that do not cite any references are much more likely to be reverted. Eheaps (talk) 17:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, I hold my hands up, I didn't read the home page. I promise I will follow the rules in the future. Also I was wrong, I was confused buy the length of Hugh Napier and Britomart being the same, but Hugh Napier being a larger loco. But it is because Britomart has long couplings and Hugh Napier very short ones. Woodstockstrat1969 (talk) 12:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

It was all my devices at home, I created an account at work to be able to post this. But now everything is working again at home. Woodstockstrat1969 (talk) 12:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

In that case, it is likely that you were blocked automatically by the system that protects our server from denial of service attacks. In essence, this counts up the number of requests our web server receives from your IP address and puts a block in place if it thinks there are too many in a short space of time. Even I get blocked occasionally! Peter Harrison (talk) 12:50, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

That makes sence. Thank you. Woodstockstrat1969 (talk) 12:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)