User talk:Keith/old

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Old User Talk commentary

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Hi Keith, I like the idea of the different colours for the different categories! Tony_E. 19:04, 11 March 2007

Hi Keith, There is a page called Vans 4 And 5 which is an orphan - nothing links to it at all. How d'you reckon it should best fit in? Tony_E. 17:12, 11 March 2007

Old Qwiki"s[edit]

How do you like my user page? I've run out of time now but How do I set up a page like this? Click on Discussion from your own User' page to create talk page Kim

The command to stop text wrapping round a photo is <br clear="all">.

No idea why the minor change was not showing on RC for you. I haven't had a problem with that. I did find a problem with the diff link sometimes not working but I fixed that this morning. If you are still seeing the problem, let me know and I will investigate further --Peter_Harrison 20:31, 4 March 2007

It was probably slow server - it appeared shortly after - no sweat --Keith 21:40, 4 March 2007

It could have been a refresh issue. Following the changes, it seems IE is more inclined to use a cached version of the page than used to be the case.


The problem with Image:P&p... is to do with the URL rewriting. I'm trying to figure out what is going on and fix it. I'm surprised - I did set up a page with an & in the title but maybe it depends on what is around the &. Watch this space.

As for long/short pages, there is no definition as such. They are the same lists but one is printed starting with the longest page, the other starts with the shortest page. --Peter_Harrison 17:52, 2 March 2007

Not sure if I've mentioned this anywhere, but the problem with Image:P&p... is now fixed --Peter_Harrison 23:22, 3 March 2007

Just trying a section edit on this page since Keith is reporting a problem... --Peter_Harrison 21:45, 1 July 2007

Carriage 121 Mark I and Carriage 121[edit]

Keith - Now Peter has upgraded the Wiki software I would like to suggest that Carriage 121 Mark I and Carriage 121 pages are combined as per my sandbox. Stewart 07:51, 3 March 2007

No prob - pray continue sir Keith 10:32, 3 March 2007

Now is not the time - at an internet terminal at Hong Kong airport in the early hours of Monday morning. Sleep willing I will have a go at it when I get home. Stewart 16:11, 4 March 2007

Have a good fright ... err flight! --Keith 16:12, 4 March 2007

I fly half way round the world to discover that the "new 121" is now to be numbered 124 whilst I have been in the air. Ironic when I had suggested that the service vehicles should be numbered 130, 131 and 132 eighteen months ago. --Stewart 12:35, 5 March 2007
As they are not passenger carriages at all, I personaly believe that they should be in the Van series of numners! ;-)
Now that is a good idea - Van 10; Van 11 and Van 12 would be an interesting sequence and bound to cause a considerable amount of discussion on the eGroup. --Stewart 13:03, 7 March 2007

Now you are asking for trouble on that score!!! - No - I'll go with the 130+ idea. whilst it isnt passenger carrying stock, it is/will be for use with passenger stock !! --User:Keith 13:28, 7 March 2007 PS Bruce - get your id sorted!!!

Why what have I done wrong?! I'll admit I'm completely lost in this new wiki formatt! User:Bruce_Brayne

Firstly, welcome Bruce. You aint done nutin rong lad. S'unfortunate that Stewart declared he would have a go at amending it, flew t'other side o'planet, and by the time e got back, you had already started on it!! Mind u, someone also decided to change the number to 124. U rmember we had discussion on the number aspect here as to version 1 121 and version 2 121, last year. There was some comment on big wiki about leaving a marker, presumably on the discussion page, if you were updating a page - this may work here I dont know -- 21:01, 8 March 2007

PS Bruce. Create a talk page on your User:Bruce_Brayne by clicking on discussion and type a few chars in - people can then kleave u a message like you have left one here for me! -- 21:10, 8 March 2007

Hi Keith, I've not touched 121 since the wiki was transformed, and I'm hearing all sorts of rummours regarding it from Port! I'm heading that way this weekend so will find the truth myself, but I am told that 121 is still 121 at the present time and has not/will not be renumbered. 124 seems to have been thrown in as an enigma and whats true/untrue about it I have yet to discover... it could of course be a massive wind up! Bruce_Brayne

Tell us wot u find please. --Keith 23:26, 8 March 2007

Not quite Kieth, I was the other side of the world when I made the offer, saying I would do it when I got back. Much better doing this from the comfort of my own laptop than from a hotel internet connection. Then when I returned to Glasgow I found Ed Harris brought 124 into the equation. Once someone has confirmed what is happening numbering wise we can move forward. --Stewart 19:27, 9 March 2007
Right. I can confirm that the new service vechicle is 124 and carries transfers indicating this. Its going for a test run up the line next week to see how it rides - the generatator makes it quite a bit heavier than a normal carriage! and as for why 124? - because that way all the current buffet cars will end in the number 4: 14, 114 and 124. Okay 104 throws a spanner into that but the idea is good in principal. If we ever to get to making an second service car, it shall carry the number 134... well thats the current thinking anyway! Bruce_Brayne

Prince (Pictorial Views)[edit]

Keith - I have been at it again. Have a look at Prince (Pictorial Views). I have used the gallery feature. This should make is feasible to add pictures into the main pages and do away with the pictorial views pages. Thoughts?? Stewart 08:13, 3 March 2007

Adding messages to a talk page[edit]

Keith - Yet another one for you to think about. Look at my Talk and User page - ignoring the fact I have a redirect on them from my Pencefn. I suggest you put the header on that forces a new message at the bottom of the page. This may also be useful in The Den Stewart 08:17, 3 March 2007

Picture sizes[edit]

I'm not saying it is wrong per se to set the size of pictures. I certainly don't want pages where users have to scroll right to see the whole picture.

Where a picture is included like this Image:Busta.jpg:


it is fine to specify a size if you don't want it to display full-size. If you give it the "framed" type to give it a caption, it will always be full size like this:

A picture of Busta

However, I think many pictures should be thumbnails like this:

A picture of Busta

For these, no size should be specified in most circumstances. Users can set the size they want thumbnails to appear in their preferences and we should respect that. Having said that, there are circumstances where it is acceptable to specify a size, for example in infoboxes or where the standard thumbnail size (180px) is too small to allow detail to be seen.

My comments were triggered by two things:

  • Another user setting pictures as thumbnails but specifying quite large sizes
  • The realisation that a number of pages have a lot of large photos which can take a long time to appear even on broadband, hence my suggestion (no more than that) that we should think about using gallery tags for these

Separately, I have updated the "Test Table" page to make the table look how I think you intended. Comments:

  • You need to put |- at the start of a line if you want to move to a new row in the table. Old style tables move to a new row on each new line, new style ones don't. This is so that you can specify one cell per line if you want to (or have a cell with contents running over several lines)
  • You don't need to put || at the end of a line of cells. That will create a blank cell

I created two versions. The first specified border="1" after the {| to make it look like old-style tables. The second specified class="wikitable", which puts the caption in bold and introduces a number of other effects. Take a look and see what you think.

Finally, I am wondering about the profusion of Test pages we have. On Wikipedia, there is a sandbox page which is automatically cleared on a daily basis. Also, users can experiment on their User page or set up sub-pages of their User page as Stewart has done. I was wondering whether we should go the same way but I don't have strong views on this.

--Peter_Harrison 08:18, 3 March 2007

I went for Wiki:Test xxx cos that seemed to hide from main files and also keep seperate. I dont have strong views either here. - there seems only to be Kim and self that really use it, so a personal hive off to user: may be ok (when I figure to create sub pages) - talking of which, there probably is a "call" still for Wiki:Test like the W:T Table - where u set up a working example - probably call for more little bits like this.
--Keith 22:46, 3 March 2007

Wiki test pages all blanked - Kim & I now using own sandbox areas --Keith 13:15, 19 April 2007

Image licenses[edit]

Minor point - when you specify "Permission from license holder" as the copyright tag, could you indicate who the license holder is please. You could use "Permission from self" if it is more appropriate, although you still need to specify who "self" is for old images. For new images it will be obvious from the page history, but it is probably still best to specify --Peter_Harrison 23:26, 3 March 2007

Doing this in the summary section or by the Category usage for majoe players --Keith 13:15, 19 April 2007

I'd thought of that when doing Cyrils - which is why so many edits on them. Will be placing name in the summary field with usual form = Photo:Keith C. Bradbury (or however)

Both Ben and Barrie are happy for us to use pictures from there sites - my part of the bargain is that if a 3rd party name exist then I dont use it. I.E. If it appears on their site with no direct accreditation, then it is presumed to be their own work - Barrie does usually indicate in file title - Ben doesnt. I will clarify this with him --Keith 23:45, 3 March 2007

Keith - I see you are writing some stuff about releasing the image under GFDL and putting the license as PD-self on some of your images. It might be more appropriate to set the license for these images to GFDL-self --Peter_Harrison 20:26, 5 March 2007

Presume this is the HR icons from the Wikipedia - decided againt doing that - will set for deletion. the only 2 I currently envisage using will be the self, or owner permission (i.e. Barrie & Ben) --Keith 20:31, 5 March 2007

I don't have a problem with that, but be aware that {{PD-self}} means you are releasing the photo for use with no restrictions. {{GFDL-self}} means they have to acknowledge you as the photographer --Peter_Harrison 22:19, 5 March 2007

Moelwyn halt[edit]

Keith - just taking a look at your changes, the Moelwyn Halt page clearly isn't working how you intended. You need to do the following:

  • Use the right name for the template - on this page you are trying to use Template:StationsTab3 but the template is actually Template:StaionTab3
  • Terminate the braces for the template - you need to add }} at the end of the template parameters
  • Use the right names for the parameters - For example, this uses "next station" which is acceptable as a parameter name, but the template is expecting "nextstat"

That would make the page work. Personally, I would then move the template code to the head of the article so that the infobox appears top right, remove the table at the bottom of the page and think about removing the Stations link from the links section so that it isn't duplicated (but there is no problem with duplicating this link if you think it is useful).

I thought I would let you make the changes rather than do them for you so that you can sort out how you want the page to look.

By the way, I would prefer to follow the Wikipedia convention of having additional internal links in a section called "See also" rather than "Links".

Hope this helps --Peter_Harrison 11:02, 5 March 2007

Had to break off to do some job applications - need to earn a bit of money!! I had already realised Staions as a mis type and the changes from Next station to nextstat were underway - I was bringing them down to 8 chars max thinking that was the problem (Okay old timer thinking!!) - the pages were still open as I write this --Keith 12:06, 5 March 2007

Shine on - edit conflict when Tony put his message on!! - just lost this edit!!

Right - got it right now Moelwyn Halt - but will amend table slightly (top secret!!) shortly - thanks for making me do it myself Peter --Keith 14:44, 5 March 2007

page layout[edit]

Hi Keith, I knocked out a couple of double lines at the bottom of a couple of pages (yes that was me not signed in for some reason) but putting the cat at the very bottom, but I see on other locations that you are placing external links between these lines, so I'll stop! Tony_E. 14:35, 5 March 2007

Harbour Pictorials[edit]

I have found elsewhere that if the picture is more than 90% width (as the 950px pictures are on my display) there is only a minimal difference in the line up, which make the design look untidy. I have also now previewed an earlier verision on my desktop PC with a higher resolution (and a 21" screen). The is a lot of white space around the pictures. There would look better with more text - but how it would look on a lower resolution screen (i.e. a laptop) is a different matter. I think what would look better now is the removal of the Pictorial Views pages and the addition of all the pictures amongst the text - say with a maximum of 300px (possibly push to 350px) parameter. The
code would probably become redundant and the article to read well on may resolutions of screens. --Stewart 22:58, 10 March 2007

refs - do not delete[edit]

<br clear="all">



  1. ^ The Festiniog Railway, James I.C. Boyd, 1959, Volume II (page 372)

Template:FR Carriage Data Block[edit]

Keith, I suggest the if you need to change the name of a page again you use the move button. If it works the same way as Wikipedia it creates an automatic redirect against the old name and it transfers all the page history. This is what really should have been done with Carriage 121 as well. --Stewart 19:42, 12 March 2007 |Sorry bout that - forgot the "move" facility - as there were only the 4-5 pages in use. - Not guilty on 121 / 124 though! --Keith 21:10, 12 March 2007

Carriage 9 (and now 6, 11, 13)[edit]

Why do we have a page for a Carriage 9? as far as I know there isn't one currently, nor is their planned to be one. The Ashbury replica is Carriage 10... Cheers, Bruce_Brayne

We have been here before!!. Started out as a mistake on my part confusing Carriage 10, and the WHR(P) buffet.... I left it in purely as a reference - this was around the time C10 started building. It does no harm, so just left it in to show the old carriage type (as opposed to new build) - Just corrected data panel. Thanks for the continuation on the panels for carriages - had to break off

--Keith 17:11, 15 March 2007

replaced the above pages with stubs and a small amount of data - just so bruisers, sorry browsers can see a proegrssion in the number line!! --Keith 13:15, 19 April 2007

Stub Template[edit]

Keith - Not an original thought, but an adaptation of a Wikipedia template, I have created Template:Stub and applied it to the articles that I believe are Stub Articles. --Stewart 19:27, 2 April 2007

Stewart: Nice one - I was trying to keep it simple having read the notes on stubs on Wikipedia - I think we're small enough not to go down that line of working - too complex. Like the idea of little picture, but would have thought a clearer one would have been better (i.e. nice atmopspheric shot but a mini one looks a bit dark) --Keith 19:46, 2 April 2007
Keith - I have changed the photo to a lighter one. Double-headed Englands on a New Year train. --Stewart 20:34, 2 April 2007

Date Formats[edit]

Keith - We are going to violently disagree on date format. The th/st/rd suffix is archaric and I believe it should be present. It is a short-hand way of writing a position in a list, etc (i.e. 1st instead of first, etc.). I would tolerate in prose, but definitely not in a list/table/etc. If you must persist in using it, I would prefer the suffix be made optional. --Stewart 21:32, 22 April 2007

Well... if your going to be like that, I will hit you with my 3152nd edition of the Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. Just finished watching part the Third of Si(x)th of the visually stimulating primary version with real people like Peter Jones as the voice! --Keith 22:47, 22 April 2007
Or why not an archaic form ? for a heritage operation?? Seriously, with nearly all options being volutanry, I do not see any problem - even I will put in things like Easter 2002, because I dont know the precise date. --Keith 22:47, 22 April 2007
Let us conclude this one as friends, and leave it flexible as long as the whole numeric version is not used since it can mis-understood. --Stewart 05:34, 23 April 2007 (on the twenty third day of April, on the two thousand and seventh year after the year of our Lord's birth)
Are we really sure in that? - I seem to remember in some ancient, (back when my years of life could be counted on 3 appendages), theological discussion it worked out that he started life in 4AD. Or was this taking the Gregorian Calendar into account? --Keith 05:53, 23 April 2007

Image text editting[edit]

Keith, Can I suggest if you are going to edit the summary, licensing of an image that the Template:ImageCaption is added at the same time. That way you kill two birds with one stone - and it will make your life easier. For example the recent Barrie Hughes photo you have dealt with. --Stewart

Template Documents[edit]

Keith, I was trying to take the Template documentation from wikipedia - See Template:Template doc from Wikipedia. Unfortunately time has beaten me, and I fly off on a business trip tomorrow and time to follow this through will be limited. --Stewart 22:51, 3 May 2007

Keith, I intend to abandon this experiment. --Stewart 02:43, 20 May 2007


Nice one - except it has a 700 px limiter on it. Up it to 800 and I think it would get more use (ok so mine are normally 640 so I can use it on mine!!) --Keith 09:18, 10 May 2007

Keith - I will push it up to 775px. I am concious of the maximum width of screen that some computers are set to. --Stewart 10:35 (EST), 10 May 2007

WHR Personalities[edit]

Your most recent edit to this page seems to have removed all the names and just left the header. Was this your intention? -- 11:27, 16 May 2007

Oops - should have signed in first! That comment was from me --Peter_Harrison 11:30, 16 May 2007

Dis is doin m'head in!!!! Your point - yes I know I had left it that way (noname) - I had done changes then seemingly got edit lock - took the names out and saved data offline(for later insert) and saved again - that save worked.

Came to do it now and it said error edit lock !!!!! - went to RC and it said it had done it!!! ARRRGGGHHHH! File is as should be at 13:44 UK time - THEN I couldnt update this file!!! or so I wrote at about 14:20 - gave up then and left til u reset and sent email --Keith 15:43, 16 May 2007

F&B trackwork[edit]

Hi Keith

You say that the trackwork could have been 20lbs/yard and unfished. This is very unlikely - such a weight of track would not take a steam engine - especially the Englands which ran on the line as well. Is this info from Boyd?

Flat bottom is visible on the John Thomas pictures, but the weight would have been more and they would have been fished

Chris Jones - 19/5

Replied back -info para-copied from M Lewis article in early FRM, correctable if he knows different, which from above, he does!! --Keith 17:25, 19 May 2007

Hi Keith

I see you didnt take out the bit about 20lbs chaired track. Please can you remove it. The photographs of the time and Tylers report are in total agreement - flat bottom track and 38lbs per yard from the start. The article is just not researched in this area and should not be quoted - honest!

Chris Jones 20/5

Did some sideline investigation on the dates of articles and "veracity" of information (is that the word), and yes it does warrant removal - now done. I had left it in - (and with refs to Boyds figure of 38 lbs) to show that you cannot always trust what you read or the source!!!! --Keith 20:33, 20 May 2007

I looked again - absolutely fatal! - the M.Lewis bit on the Tan-y-Manod deviation is not right either!. The original line did follow the shelf but a large wooden viaduct was soon put across which took the current line (it is the JT photo of this viaduct which shows so clearly the track). The standard gauge conversion involved rebuilding this viaduct from stone as can be seen today.

Chris j - 21/5 0045 and going to bed!

I looked at this from work this afternoon and removed one ML sentence - I hope you don't mind - apologies Chris J 21/5

Editting Sections[edit]

Keith, Look at the history of this page. I editted a section, however the whole page page except the section in question was deleted. Why - is this one for Peter? --Stewart 02:50, 20 May 2007

Peter is aware of this - I pointed it out s couple of weeks back --Keith 03:35, 20 May 2007

FR Co. Pictures[edit]

On the pages I have culled from the old Company website, most of the pics I believe to be from Ian Butters, as an FR employee. However, given the situation in that area, I have never credited as such. This results in "Unknown Photographer". I have just changed 1 to show FR Co.. Comment please on the way to go on this (also posted to PeterH id) --Keith 23:08, 21 May 2007

As a result your message, I have adjusted the photographer ID to FR Company on the trial image Image:FRCo-Interactive 2002-03.jpg, and put a filter on this particular photographer ID on the template to point to Category:Photos from FR Company Library. Reply also posted to Peter. --Stewart 00:34, 22 May 2007

Plas Tan-y-Bwlch[edit]

Hi Keith, I see that you have recently created Plas Tan-y-Bwlch. A page already exists (albeit with less favourable spelling) at Plas Tan-Y-Bwlch Tony_E. 18:53, 12 July 2007

Dont know about the "favourable" bit, but I made mine a redirect to the one you mention
As per a previous discussion, there is always differing ways, T y B , T Y B, T-y-B, T-Y-B, pity them Welsh dont speak like wot we do!! --Keith 19:39, 12 July 2007
Yeah, I well recall the debate! - Can't please all of us all of the time! Tony_E. 20:10, 12 July 2007


Come on Keith. Please spell the English correctly as well!

Chris J

Apologies - Pronounciation worked on MS Search , and I just copied it - corrected now --Keith 15:41, 14 July 2007

Princess 1946 photo[edit]


I'm trying to get a standard format for the England loco pages of large photos at beginning and end and thumbnail photos to allow text in the middle. I will have the text for Princess by next weekend(I'm deciphering the Williams books loco by loco). The picture you have inserted is to a bigger format and the amount of description is also very long for the displayed image rather than the page for the picture itself, Would you mind if I reduce the picture to the same size as the others and truncate the description as the others on these pages? if we go for this level of complication in the displayed images I feel we will detract from the story we are telling - that the copyright etc should be with the image page. --Chris J 17:05, 4 August 2007


Wern't me guv - Kfw is Kim Winter - but I am sure he wont mind - it does stick out on both pages, and as said all relevant details are on the image page. I will try and contact Kim directly before I leave for Port Sunday AM Meanwhile removed the Template used and reduced to more manageable size - hope this is ok for your purposes. not tried to format - will leave for you --Keith 17:41, 4 August 2007

Keith, Like the layout that Chris is doing for the descriptive pages. The full width template is not really suitable on the England Engine history pages. However, on the pictorial pages the template is more appropriate. --Stewart 18:26, 4 August 2007
As said - it wernt me!!!!! Spoken to Kim a couple of mins ago - he's ok with amendment - Chris can take it further when he revamps further down page (left original on his talk page). Dubious if it is appropriate on even pictorials now. Since we have the image page, a lot more info can be stored on there, leaving the main body pages more to be in line with a picture in a book.

--Keith 19:35, 4 August 2007

Accident page[edit]

Hi Keith

You could be making a rod for your own back here. There is detail suff in Boyd (in the appendices), what you have here will be 'bitty' depending on who chooses to input.

It also leaves room for people to put in information about current events which could be politically incorrect (eg the derailment at Dinas a month ago).

I would humbly suggest you retitle to limit the applicability (ie pre-restoration). But will you be copying in the Boyd rext and then adding the later detail from PJ?



Cut off limit of pre-preservation - agree - whole heartedly - did not intend to cover beyond 1946 anyway.

I am currently going through "names" as appearing in PJ-Illustrated.

Some have been accident notes, and therefore decided to branch onto that field with a category for "Accidents". Then thought to have a page per incident - then decided not to - just a log. Am including from my notes from PJ-Ill as I go through it. Will take from Boyd's list - add any extras, including anything I come across from WHR. Place in the form it is in already Idea is to register all instances.

I know the info is in Boyd, but I think with PJ info and ability to link, a list here is reaonably valid I intend to complete more of the "names" section before I revisit it properly. --Keith 15:01, 16 August 2007

Williams funeral diversion[edit]


It was William Williams, who's funeral cortege would not pass BL - Not Robert Williams

Ive just re-checked in Boyd


just clearing up back notes - Chris is correct - changes made shortly thereafter --Keith 15:33, 8 October 2007

Formatting of Chronology 1836-1862[edit]

Keith When I looked at the page it was not able to be all read - after 1836 to disappeared off the right of the page! I have tried to fix it and checked with the 1863-1889 pages. However it needs the description column to allow itself to write across a wider number of characters (as in the 1889 page) and maybe then put back to its original format?. I've left it so it can be read but it is not right - I can't see how to alter the format more.

Chris 19/8 - 1500

just clearing up back notes - I had been playing with format and Chris looked while it was screwed - It was corrected shortly after comment made --Keith 15:33, 8 October 2007


Keith, Following the Wikipedia lead, I have created a template....

This is a Festipedia User Page.

This is not an encyclopedia article. If you find this page on any site other than Festipedia you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated and that the user to whom this page belongs may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Festipedia itself. The original page is located at

What to do you reckon - I have added to your User Page and my own. --Stewart (talk) 18:51, 14 December 2007


Hi Keith, Season's greetings. I have put together a short piece on shunting loco activities. I'm not quite sure what its title should be, or where it would slot in. Perhaps I could ask you to have a look at it (my sandbox.), then paste it somewhere accordingly. Thanks. Tony_E. (talk) 11:58, 27 December 2007

Cesail / Gesail[edit]

Hi Keith, I'd have to say that my moves yesterday were a result of Ben's query. I have masses of stuff on quarries, and not a single printed reference to "Gesail" anywhere. As things stood there were two entries on the Wiki, so making one of them a redirect seemed logical. And until anyone can find any credible references to "Gesail", it kind of makes sense to retain Cesail as the main article! (I actually think that the name has derived from the original place name "Y Gesail" - seen elsewhere in Wales - it's an "armpit" or hollow - but the word on its own is Cesail.) But, as ever, amend as necessary ..... Tony_E. (talk) 11:03, 28 December 2007

Dinas branch maps[edit]

Hi Keith

The title of the Map 3 is wrong, it shows the branch after 1899, not 1880

The change in 1880 was to put in the 3rd leg of the triangle.

Chris JChrisjones (talk) 17:19, 7 January 2008

Answering your question - No - it is still wrong as it shows the triangle as being abandoned(ie post 1899)rather than showing it as a railway

Therefore it should either put the triangle in, and explain it or be titled post 1899!

Chrisjones (talk) 21:12, 7 January 2008

Dinas Branch 1976[edit]

Just a couple of points Keith, the line would not need to cross the Barlwyd until after Dinas station - but this was always on the 1836 line. The line would have joined the original 1836 route, not the 1899 route (as this was not planned to be reinstated)


Date for 1880 link line for triangle[edit]

Hi Keith

The 1899 Dinas Branch diagramm shows the link line being 1888-1899 instead of 1880-1899. I'm a pain arn't I!

Chrisjones (talk) 14:26, 18 January 2008

Tables conversion - to do list[edit]


DONE tolling stock  DONE 
DONE All-Metal Slate Waggons DONE
DONE Locations DONE
DONE The Journal DONE
DONE Wagon List Un-Numbered DONE
DONE Carriage Renumbering Guide DONE
DONE Festiniog Railway Steam Locomotive Availability 2006 DONE
DONE Naming The Earl 1961 By Eddie Bellass DONE
DONE Ashbury 4-Wheel Carriages DONE
DONE Creuau Bank DONE
DONE WHR Carriages (Pre Preservation) DONE
DONE Alphabetic Index RZ DONE
DONE Alphabetic Index AG DONE
DONE Alphabetic Index HZ DONE
DONE Legal Agreements Etc/source notes DONE
DONE Publications DONE
DONE Kids Week 2002 DONE
DONE England Engine Tenders DONE
DONE FR And Broadcast Media DONE
DONE Garnedd Tunnel DONE
DONE Aberglaslyn Tunnels DONE
DONE Buzzards DONE
DONE Slate And The Festiniog Railway DONE
DONE FR Heritage Group Journal DONE
DONE WHR(P) Coach No. 10 DONE
DONE Bleasdale Photographs DONE
DONE Beddgelert (Loco) DONE
DONE Winter Warmer Weekend 2003 DONE
DONE Vintage Weekend 2002 DONE
DONE Old Moelwyn Tunnel DONE
DONE Carriage 23 DONE
DONE Mileposts DONE
DONE Garnedd Tunnel DONE

Comments: Gorseddau Junction And Portmadoc Railways Company (looks like a candidate for a gallery to me!)

 Okay your the boss - BUT .....  there is no other pictures covering it on this wiki, and the only ones Ben has are small ones ..... gulp ... apparently he took some more bigger ones later.  Putting 'em as galeries spoils the view!  Have converted to new style table tho'  and thats my comment!

--Keith (talk) 2008-1-20T13:12:52

NWNGR Beddgelert loco[edit]

Having read the article, I would suggest it was turned round to put the weight on the driving wheels going up the grade. If it was the 'normal' way round it would sit down on its rear bogie. Do you know if therewas any record of the decision?



Sorry Keith, I didnt realise that by moving that photo it would remove it completely, I thought it was in the photos section. At least it can be retrieved from the history.

For the rest, as with the other England locos I have tried to tell a story over time with the pictures. So with Princess, Palmerston & Welsh Pony there are small pictures to document the history and a large one at beginning and end for then & now.

For Prince I shouldn't blow my own photographic trumpet so I haven't finished with a large picture yet. For Little Giant I will scan a picture of the remains in Glan-y-Mor yard when I can next see Adrian

Chrisjones (talk) 14:59, 1 February 2008

Merddin Updates[edit]

Hi Keith

A few views on what you have done in creating a summary table for Merddin, take them or leave them!

The heading of the picture being black writing on dark blue - its difficult to read. Maybe it would look better in black on white but with a heritage font?

Merddins conversion to oil was completed in April 1973 (FR Mag refers)

Merddin did not have a 9 year overhaul 1996-2005. It was left as too difficult until 2000 then the Society raised funds and many different volunteers contributed to its eventual rebuild. I'd leave that phrase out completely and just note it was rebuilt by 2005.

Length - I wouldn't put dimensions in here as they have changed over time - it has now grown to 32 ft 6 "

"Powered by" - why not just state "Fuel" (it is powered by steam!)

On the historical side I will eventually this year decipher the Williams books for ME but JS is next. If you want the Bleasdale picure in then let me know

All the best


Chrisjones (talk) 00:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


Hi Keith

The Company employed a policeman from very early days. I think he was housed at Coed-y-Bleiddiau, but Jim Hewitt and Adrian can give you the detail.

Chrisjones (talk) 15:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Peter Jarvis[edit]

Keith - A few edits to the Railway Medical Service section about Dr Jarvis. Firstly the Jenny has not joined them (yet!); Secondly, there are two distinct sections, the second being the First Aid Training and Assessment group. Peter has stepped back from this over the past few years to a small band of professional First Aid Trainer/Assessors who give their time to the FR/RhE (Sarah, Judith and Dave).

Then there are the 50 or so First Aiders (some like myself who have a certificate through our employers and register our details with the FRMS.

--Stewart (talk) 17:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The Pedr page was updated with input from the man himself, hence removal of Trefor Owen and adding Paul and Jenny. Whilst I would in no way denegrate the work put in by anyone, I thought the comment as was, at least gave credit to the other people (who are not Drs.) involved, not just any specific group. --Keith (talk) 2008-3-18T17:50:28 (UTC)
As there is a page for FRMS, maybe the way forward is to link across to that and avoid the possibility of duplicated information which partly elsewhere. As regards JEnny, she is still considering whether to undertake this role or not (or at least that is what I understood when I met her on Sunday afternoon). --Stewart (talk) 18:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery[edit]

Hi Keith

I am experimenting with producing an NYMr Wiki (small r denoting 'railways', as in all the railways of the North Yorkshire Moors but centered on the NYMR). I am using Rpath's MediaWiki Appliance (v1.11) running as a virtual machine under VMware Player on my home PC and home network (although ironically I have some experience of Perl).

At this stage it is strictly 'proof of concept' but if / when I am happy with it and can get the NYMR's Preservation Committee (the nearest thing we have to a Heritage Group) to support me; my plan is to demonstrate it on the NYMR's internal VLAN to obtain support / funding to go onto the Internet.

The main reason for telling you this is that I was initially inspired to do this by the FR wiki (and Wikipedia of course) and in the true spirit of wikis I have borrowed bits of your wiki (as well as whole chunks from Wikipedia - although I did contribute to some of it in the first place).

As I do not have a user on this wiki, I can be contacted (should you want to) at archivist(at) (replacing the '(at)' with @ - I made the mistake of putting that address on the NYMR web site, I am still getting loads of spam).

Graham Reussner, Hon. Archivist, NYMHRT (and FRS member since 1962) 23:15, 29 March 2008

WHR Routemap in Wikipedia[edit]

Keith, Can you please take a look at Route Map for RhE in Wikipedia. Another user has decided to downgrade all the stations. I have attempted to revert them however he is determined to have his moment of glory. Could you have a look and give it a tidy up and review. Many thank. --Stewart (talk) 22:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I went, I saw, I changed.
I hope the changes done, meet with approval --Keith (talk) 2008-4-20T07:27:15 (UTC)
Addition - Kevin did another change after at 14:04 to 2 points - changes are minimal, and ?maybe? debatable.
Traeth M never a station/halt - just a stop point but how else would you represent it other than as he has done
Harbour - given this is currently changing, not worth pursuing.
--Keith (talk) 2008-4-20T16:52:39 (UTC)
Thanks Keith - the summary of all the changes over the past 24 hours is now very little. --Stewart (talk) 19:50, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi Keith,

of course I'm aware of the "recent" pictures being copyrighted! I'm admin on Wikipedia, so you can be sure that I'm very concerned about copyright issues! But I didn't have the intention to begin categorizing pictures on this wiki or creating licence templates. I posted my remark concerning Image:Beddgelert-2.jpg only because I had stumbled across this picture by incident and because it was tagged "unsure". As I have mentioned, there are cases where we can't be sure about the copyright status, and it is ok to keep on the safe side (even if Wikipedia allows a little amount of doubt – but this wiki isn't Wikipedia).

But copyright status is no matter of discussion when it is a recent picture. And the status "public domain" is no matter of discussion when the photographer has died more than 70 years ago. The latter applies for example to all images taken by R H Bleasdale, because he died 1897. I've chosen one of his pictures for my new Fairlie article, but of course I've credited not only the photographer but also provided a link to this wiki.

But I won't do this in a "big style"; in many cases useful pictures already exist on Commons, and FR/WHR isn't my main topic in Wikipedia.

Regards, FritzG (talk) 15:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Location updates[edit]

Keith, I could understand the OS reference being useful on the Wiki - but surely you are making an unnecessary rod for your back by putting on the longitude/lattitude - nobody will ever use such information?

My advice would be give yourself a break!

Chrisjones (talk) 16:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)



Why are you putting asterisks in front of dates and descriptions on photographs? It looks untidy and incomplete without a key?


Chrisjones (talk) 22:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Loading Gauge[edit]


The FR loading gauge is restricted in height at the centre by Rhiw Plas Bridge. It is restricted at the eaves of the carriages by Garnedd Tunnel (hence the shape of the Vale of Ffestiniog)

Why not ask Fred for a diagram of the current kinetic envelope for the Wiki?

Chrisjones (talk) 11:46, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


Just intrigued to see if its a person or a machine - seems to be the latter. I'll stop now


Croesor Junction[edit]

Hi Keith, I've got a couple of bits to add into the text of Croesor Junction, but I'll wait till you've finished inserting your maps, and moved the latest version from your sandbox to the main page. No rush, busy at mo .... Tony E. (talk) 14:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Arrival of first locomotives[edit]


I think you will find Boyd said they canme by sea. They are now believed to have been delivered by rail to Caernarfon? I will re-read PLJ tonight

Chrisjones (talk) 17:13, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Boyd says they came by rail to the nearest railhead (there is no ship entry showing they came by ship). It would also be logical, if they came by ship to send them straight to Port rather than all that distance away. I had forgotten that PLJ had gone back to an earlier version. I will ask Adrian by e-mailChrisjones (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Adrian professes not to know, so I'd say Boyd should be quoted, not PLJ as it sounds much more plausible that they came from South London by rail. The history of Job Williams and his cart is dealt with elsewhere on the wiki and doesn't need duplicating.

Chrisjones (talk) 23:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Day Logs[edit]


Just an observation. You are putting much effort into creating individual day logs for items which are one line of information. We already have a Chronology section with a tabular format which covers the same thing, but by being a table gives a better overview of the important dates.

Wouldn't it be better to put all of this information into the chronology?

Chrisjones (talk) 13:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

FR Accident Record[edit]


Please dont put NWNGR accidents against the existing accident record. This is and should be for the FR only. Can you set up a separate accident record for NWNGR as it was an entirely separate railway.

Thanks Chrisjones (talk) 18:32, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


No problems with either Chrisjones (talk) 22:49, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

WHRL page created[edit]


Shouldnt this be WHHRL? or WHHR? Chrisjones (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

'Carriage 1- old Van 6 page[edit]


Can we change the title of this page to Van 1 - old Van 6. None of the Vans were ever Carriage No 1

Chrisjones (talk) 23:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)