User talk:FarleyBrook

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From Festipedia, hosted by the FR Heritage Group
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Peter Harrison in topic Sorting categories


N English.EN
Phrase.WL Bell Code
101 Obstruction
6 bells
102 Hot weather
WOLO Speed Restriction due to heat
which may buckle rails, or
tangle OHW
210 Red E
211 Yellow
212 Green R
301 Up (to Portmadoc) W
302 Down (to Blaneau Festiniog) Q
311 Stop
312 Caution R
313 Go
221 Train departed xx
2 bells
222 Train arrived xx-x
2-1 bells
990 Give matter special attention WAXY E3
991 Arrange and
advise all concerned
999 D

Apropos your category "Questions needing answers"…[edit]

… have you noticed that you can add pages to your watchlist (top third link from right when you're logged in) by clicking the star in the next lower row of links? Might work better than a category? --IP (talk) 14:58, 13 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Festipedia seems automatically to add to my watchlist, every page that I edit. The watchlist gets rather long. The "Cat:Questions needing answers" is more focussed. FarleyBrook (talk) 15:02, 15 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You can choose that to some extent, including adding all pages manually. Works mostly but can have a hiccup from time to time. Tab "Preferences" > tab "Watchlist" under the "Preferences" heading. --IP (talk) 15:29, 15 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Another purpose of the QNNA category is so that other people can see what questions need answering. By comparison, a user's watchlist is invisible, ARAIK, to other users. FarleyBrook (talk) 03:42, 15 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Switchbacks (Zig zags)[edit]

I don't know of any switchbacks on either the FR or the WHR:s (Limited and Caernarfon) with forerunners. What you can call hairpin turns, yes, and the Dduallt spiral, but nowhere the engine has to run around its train on the line. So if you make a category of those, another name seems to be needed. --IP (talk) 14:16, 15 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I propose to do a combined "ZZ and Incline" wikitable since they both tackle the same sort of geographical problem. There are lots of inclined planes on Festipedia; the number of Zig Zags does not justify a separate topic. FarleyBrook (talk) 15:07, 15 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Have you seen any switchback at all? If any, they must have been on quarry branches, not on main (public) lines. In any case, even if there a) were some but b) just one or two, I think they should be well separated from inclines, whether within one table or not. Technically they have nothing to do with each other, just two of several solutions (along with tight curves, turnbacks, spirals, rack sections …) to the problem of overcoming a gradient. That said, I would welcome (a) table(s). --IP (talk) 15:21, 15 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A zig zag was proposed on the North Wales Narrow Gauge Railways.
Here in the very far away distant N S Wales we had two zigzags.
Here in N S Wales, developments on the Festiniog Railway were closely followed as a way of obtaining Cheap Railways, an article yet to be written.
Cheap Railways, it was often argued, meant "Narrow Gauge Railways or No Railways". See Fairlie locomotive and Carl Pihl.
User:Farley Brook contains a sandbox for a future wikitable Zig Zags and Inclined Planes. FarleyBrook (talk) 01:46, 16 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Obviously I wasn't quite clear. I meant: have you seen any switchbacks on the lines concerned in Festipedia? The misunderstandihg may be on my side too, so ignore this if you already know it, but: I wonder if you have noticed that a switchback (zigzag) is not a hairpin curve? In a hairpin curve the line is continuous, the train can just soldier on, however slowly. But a zigzag involves a set of points with a stub track where the train must change directions (and usually a run-round track or a second switchback to get the engine at the right end again).
In any case: there aren't any switchbacks on the FR or WHR. --IP (talk) 02:10, 16 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't think there are any in the UK either. I have seen the plans for the Bryngwyn incline replacement and think that was to have hairpin bends but can't be sure now. The proposed Betws y coed extension to the NWNGR was also to have hair pin bends on the climb to Capel Curig Heritagejim (talk) 16:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See also[edit]

Category: Inclines[edit]

I have reverted a couple of your categorisations because those articles were already in a category for themselves (and a few other files) that was in Category Inclines. Many items (locos, carriages, quarries) have categories of their own, collecting articles and other files on them in a one-item category, and only those "portfolio" categories are then included in relevant bigger ones.

However, it's not so for most of the supercategories Locations and Stations; hence the inclusion of individual articles in those even if they have a "portfolio" category. No one has bothered to go through all that material and "compartmentalise" it.

Apart from such beginner's mistakes, I must say I appreciate your contributions. --IP (talk) 14:14, 15 August 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Welsh Newspapers Online[edit]

Hi. I see that you're currently researching stuff on curve radius. I don't know if you're aware of the Welsh Newspapers Online website ( They have papers up to 1919. (The best way is to go for "Advanced search", then in the keyword search put "Festiniog Railway" (in quotes) in the first box, then, say, "radius" in the second box. Lots of interesting stuff there .... Cheers, Tony E. (talk) 16:50, 1 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have started an item from the NLW, Day Log/1901-10-07, to see how it goes. The NLW newspaper archive explorer is different to the NLA one here in N S Wales. At the moment, the NLW has produced a faulty citation, for whatever reason. FarleyBrook (talk) 04:10, 15 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The page Tanybwlch you created is unnecessary as the subject is covered by Plas Tan-Y-Bwlch Heritagejim (talk) 10:36, 15 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi Farleybrook,

I've seen your various posts re. difficulties with citations, and it seems to me that it would be best to perhaps dispense with citations that (try to) link to actual on-line articles. It is perfectly feasible in Wikipedia to use references in books (e.g. page x in a certain publication) and this should be fine here. (A number of articles on this Wiki already have this type of citation.)

e.g. [1]

The above cite does not include a link to a url: <ref>''Accident on the Festiniog Railway'', Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald, 6 September 1901, page 8</ref>

This direct link to the NLW article about a FR accident, partially works, showing both the whole page and the scanned text. [2] The "/6" has been added.

The faulty link to the NLW is: <ref>{{cite web|url=|title=AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express|date=1901-10-07|accessdate=2015-11-15|publisher=Walter Alfred Pearce (faulty)}}</ref>. It seems to be missing the "/6" article number. [3].

Modify the faulty line by adding "/6" and you get: <ref>{{cite web|url=|title=AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express|date=1901-10-07|accessdate=2015-11-15|publisher=Walter Alfred Pearce (faulty?)}}</ref>. [4].

NLW Citations seem to go through another website, namely Doesn't seem to like "/6" in <ref> </ref> [5] Does seem to like <ref> </ref> [6] This defaults to top (1st) article on page.

Progress has been made. FarleyBrook (talk) 02:41, 18 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See: Day Log/1901-10-07 for other examples of cites.

See: User talk:FarleyBrook#Citations

Contact NLW re Cite Fault[edit]

  • (Pasted into NLW's "Contact Us" page.)

NLW's citation system isn't working properly. It links to the top of the page containing the desired article, but not to the article itself.

NLW's Cite faulty: <ref>{{cite web|url=|title=AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express|date=1901-10-07|accessdate=2015-11-15|publisher=Walter Alfred Pearce (faulty)}} </ref>.

Assume that the desired article in the sixth on a page containing say 20 article. A "/6" needs to be added to the URL.

NLW Cite corrected [7].

However "" which processes the citation doesn't like the "/6", and returns an error message.

When fixing this problem, changes may need to be made with

  • NLW,
  • Wikipedia,
  • Festipedia of the Festiniog Railway, and

It would also be nice, if at the same time, the citation can be made to point to the Nth line of the article, which can be difficult to locate if the article is long.

BTW, the link to the correct article does work if you ignore the official cite system, and access NLW directly,


FB 18 Nov 2015.

You may have worked this out already but, looking at that particular article, the Cite button on the NLW page gives the code:
<ref>{{cite web|url=|title=AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express|date=1901-10-07|accessdate=2015-12-22|publisher=Walter Alfred Pearce}}</ref>
You need to replace the url value with the direct link you give above, thus:
<ref>{{cite web|url=|title=AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express|date=1901-10-07|accessdate=2015-12-22|publisher=Walter Alfred Pearce}}</ref>
That will then give a correctly formatted citation that points to the article you want. --Peter Harrison (talk) 16:13, 22 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Have contacted NLW about this cite problem. FarleyBrook (talk) 06:54, 18 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]


  1. ^ Accident on the Festiniog Railway, Carnarvon and Denbigh Herald, 6 September 1901, page 8
  2. ^
  3. ^ "AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express". Walter Alfred Pearce (faulty). 1901-10-07. Retrieved 2015-11-15.
  4. ^ "AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express". Walter Alfred Pearce (faulty??). 1901-10-07. Retrieved 2015-11-15.
  5. ^
  6. ^
  7. ^ "AlarmingRailwayAccidentnearFestiniog - Evening Express". Walter Alfred Pearce (faulty). 1901-10-07. Retrieved 2015-11-15.

Or similar.

Tony E. (talk) 19:14, 17 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

NLA and NLW[edit]

I assume from what you write that you live in Australia. If that is the case then how do you access the National Library of Wales as it seems to me that only those who live in Wales can do so? I would also like to get access and might be able to use an address of someone I know if necessary.Heritagejim (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Correct. In Australia, and in particular New South Wales, so named because of its supposed resemblance to your "Old" Wales, kangaroos and black swans excepted.
For access from anywhere to NLW, see NLW. I was told this by IIRC "Tony E".
There are quite a lot of mentions of FR and Fairlie in 19th century Australian newspapers, much more it seems than to any other UK narrow gauge line. Promoters of NG often said that it was a choice of narrow gauge railways or no railway, as standard gauge railway were often over-built and too expensive. FarleyBrook (talk) 03:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

World exemplar[edit]

One article on Festipedia says that the Festiniog Railway was a World exemplar as far as the narrow gauge was concerned. This may well be on track for truthfulness based on the preliminary number of foreign citations on say the NLA is concerned. More work is needed for a proof.

See also:

Sorting categories[edit]

I'm afraid I have had to undo some of your recent edits which were attempting to sort items in categories. If a page has a DEFAULTSORT, you only need to add a sort key for a specific category if you want it sorted differently in that category. So where DEFAULTSORT is specified as "Macgregor, Bob", you don't need to add an M as the category sort - the article will already be sorted into the Ms in the correct place. You also added an additional "|O" to the DEFAULTSORT for Tim Oulton. This has no effect and was ignored by the software. Finally, you added a category to Template:References. This resulted in every page using that template dropping into the S&T category sorted under P. As this template is widely used this was inappropriate. You should only use a template to apply a category if that category will always apply to every article using the template. I hope this helps explain how the system works. If you have any questions feel free to ask --Peter Harrison (talk) 09:45, 16 January 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]